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Old 03-30-2011, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,388,397 times
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The problem with solar farms is that they require huge subsidies to get started. Couple that with the pollution thats created by their creation. Thats one reason why there are so few solar panel producers in the states.
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Old 03-30-2011, 03:50 PM
 
2,409 posts, read 3,041,435 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
The problem with solar farms is that they require huge subsidies to get started. Couple that with the pollution thats created by their creation. Thats one reason why there are so few solar panel producers in the states.

THANK YOU! It's like these little Prius/hybrid cars. Some of the rare earth metals it takes to produce the computers/technology in these cars is almost worst from an environmental perspective than carbon emission. If you study the rare earth mining industry in china and other countries and what it does to the environment most people would understand this. But again Americas spoonfeed what their corporate overloards tell them and are glued to the boob tube and facebook.
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Old 03-30-2011, 04:45 PM
 
Location: deafened by howls of 'racism!!!'
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Green bundler with the golden touch
Obama fundraiser got clean energy aid, then perch to advise Energy Secretary
Green bundler with the golden touch - The Center for Public Integrity
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Old 03-30-2011, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Orlando
8,276 posts, read 12,859,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ergohead View Post
Seattle can hardly wait!

obviously they need to harness wind and tidal power... even that happens under 260 days of cloud coverage...

There are solutions that make sense for each region.
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Old 03-30-2011, 05:02 PM
 
45,226 posts, read 26,443,162 times
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Subsidies required. Where will the money come from?

Last edited by Frank DeForrest; 03-30-2011 at 05:16 PM..
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Old 03-30-2011, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,388,397 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalCroozer View Post
THANK YOU! It's like these little Prius/hybrid cars. Some of the rare earth metals it takes to produce the computers/technology in these cars is almost worst from an environmental perspective than carbon emission. If you study the rare earth mining industry in china and other countries and what it does to the environment most people would understand this. But again Americas spoonfeed what their corporate overloards tell them and are glued to the boob tube and facebook.
Its a "as long as its not in my backyard".

The reason for solar, in most folks minds, is because its good for the environment. Thats simply not true if you look at a one world reality.

There are viable alternatives, the main one being Hydrogen. Sure, in the short term 10 to 20 years it would release carbon. But in the mean time with more nuclear (in safer places), and other alternative sources of electrical use we could make the hydrogen from other sources than natural gas.

I'm not a clean freak, but solar is a pipe dream right now. If we can find a way to make solar panels without the dangerous materials that we currently need, great. But solar is safer when you look at thermal transfer instead of photovoltaic.
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Old 03-30-2011, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
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Here is a unique and attractive use of solar power.
Solar City Tower with ‘urban waterfall’ proposed for 2016 Rio Olympics
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Old 03-30-2011, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Santa Barbara
1,474 posts, read 2,918,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Subsidies required. Where will the money come from?
Doesn't big oil get subsidies?
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Old 03-30-2011, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,388,397 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jillz View Post
Doesn't big oil get subsidies?
Yes they do, but the return from the oil is better than the return on solar.

Subsidies should be shifted to oil shale and natural gas, with a slow turn towards hydrogen.
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Old 03-31-2011, 03:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jillz View Post
Doesn't big oil get subsidies?
I don't know what the current numbers are but the amounts for renewables would be much more than these from 2007. I'm sure the subsidies for fossil fuels have increased some too. While the subsidy amounts may be similar, for example wind and coal are very close, the cost per unit of production is the important number. For example the subsidy on one gallon of gas is fractions of a penny per gallon, for ethanol it's between 50 cents to more than a dollar depending on how you want to calculate it.

One other thing I will note about the coal subsidies, most of them go to R&D. For renewables we are subsidizing production.

The bottom line is if the subsidies for fossil fuels were dropped it would have little effect on their costs, dropping them for renewables on the other hand would pretty much bury them.

Quote:
  • Table ES5
  • Coal
    • Net generation in billion kilowatthours: 1,946
      Subsidization : $854 million
      Cost per megawatthour of generation $0.44
  • Refined Coal
    • Net generation in billion kilowatthours: 72
      Subsidization : $2,156 million
      Cost per megawatthour of generation: $29.81
  • Nuclear
    • Net generation in billion kilowatthours: 794
      Subsidization : $1,267 million
      Cost per meggwatthour of generation: $1.59
  • Solar
    • Net generation in billion kilowatthours: 1
      Subsidization : $14 million
      Cost per meggwatthour of generation: $24.34
  • Wind
    • Net generation in billion kilowatthours: 31
      Subsidization : $724 million
      Cost per megawatthour of generation: $23.37
Liquid fuels:


Quote:
  • Table ES6.
  • Natural Gas and Petroleum Liquids
    • FuelConsumption(quadrillion Btu): 55.78
      Subsidization : $1,921 Million
      Subsidy per million Btu: $0.03
  • Ethanol/Biofuels
    • FuelConsumption(quadrillion Btu): 0.57
      Subsidization : $3,249 Million
      Subsidy per million Btu: $5.72
Financial Interventions and Subsidies in Energy Markets 2007
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