Liberals Encourage Boycott

[TXboomerang]

So now we blame things on a Republican before he even made it to office? Lol, you are out of touch.

[saganista]

Originally Posted by Walldog

I would be careful about looking at those numbers from a static point, which is what you are doing.

You'd have to clarify your complaint. There is no claim in the CBO numbers that the composition of the lowest quintile was static. People left it, and people entered it over time. But the real average income of those within it was lower in every year of the two Reagan terms than it had been in the last year of Carter's term. Such data do not well support a contention that 'the poor' were better off under Reagan than they had been under Carter.

Originally Posted by Walldog

During the Carter administration, as unemployment went up so did lowest quintile averages.

Unemployment consistently fell during the Carter administration until the effects of the 1979 Oil Crisis hit.

Civilian unemployment rates:
Dec 76 -- 7.8
Jun 77 -- 7.2
Dec 77 -- 6.4
Jun 78 -- 5.9
Dec 78 -- 6.0
Jun 79 -- 5.7
Dec 79 -- 6.0
Jun 80 -- 7.6
Dec 80 -- 7.2

Originally Posted by Walldog

As unemployment went down and the number of teenagers between the ages of 16 and 19 got jobs shot up dramatically during Reagan's term...

Unemployment did not go down under Reagan...

Civilian unemployment rates:
Dec 80 -- 7.2
Jun 81 -- 7.5
Dec 81 -- 8.5
Jun 82 -- 9.6
Dec 82 -- 10.8
Jun 83 -- 10.1
Dec 83 -- 8.3
Jun 84 -- 7.2
Dec 84 -- 7.3

...and employment most certainly did not shoot up for teenagers...

Unemployment rate, 16-19 years (thousands employed)
Dec 80 -- 17.6 (7,564)
Jun 81 -- 19.8 (7,040)
Dec 81 -- 21.1 (6,788)
Jun 82 -- 22.9 (6,391)
Dec 82 -- 24.1 (6,371)
Jun 83 -- 24.0 (6,423)
Dec 83 -- 19.9 (6,482)
Jun 84 -- 18.2 (6,651)
Dec 84 -- 18.8 (6,438)

Originally Posted by Walldog

...the quintiles dropped. This should be expected since more entry level jobs were being created. This in effect pushed those who had been counted as being in the lowest quintile during the Carter Administration into the second quintile during Reagan. The net effect is a lower quintile average during the Reagan term, not lower incomes.

A quintile, by definition, is one fifth of the population being considered. If some people are moving up from the lowest quintile to the next-lowest, then some people are concurrently moving down. The average real income of those who were actually in the lowest quintile was lower during every year of Reagan's two terms than it was in the final year of Carter's term.

Originally Posted by Walldog

Incidentally, disposable income for the lower and middle-class went up during the Reagan Administration.

You haven't indicated what definition of disposable income you are using. But assuming that real after-tax income would be a reasonable proxy for whatever it is, here are real ($2002) average after-tax incomes for first the lowest, then the next-lowest, and then the highest quintiles during the Reagan administration...

1980: 12,700 -- 25,700 -- 85,200
1981: 12,400 -- 25,300 -- 85,100
1982: 12,000 -- 24,900 -- 88,100
1983: 11,500 -- 24,100 -- 91,800
1984: 11,700 -- 25,200 -- 97,700
1985: 11,900 -- 25,200 -- 100,800
1986: 11,900 -- 25,900 -- 114,100
1987: 11,800 -- 25,200 -- 104,500
1988: 12,100 -- 25,600 -- 112,800

Changes 1988 over 1980:
Lowest quintile -- down 4.7%
Next lowest quintile -- down 0.4%
Highest quintile -- up 32.4%

Pretty easy to see whose disposable income went up in those years, no matter how you define it.

Originally Posted by Walldog

In fact, disposable income for lower and middle class peaked higher under Reagan than at any time during the boom of the 1990's.

Same definitional questions. Same data in the meantime...

1992: 12,700 -- 26,300 -- 109,800
1993: 12,900 -- 26,600 -- 108,100
1994: 13,100 -- 26,900 -- 109,400
1995: 13,800 -- 28,100 -- 113,800
1996: 13,700 -- 28,000 -- 119,200
1997: 14,000 -- 28,500 -- 126,400
1998: 14,600 -- 30,000 -- 134,800
1999: 15,000 -- 30,600 -- 142,000
2000: 14,300 -- 30,200 -- 147,700

Changes 2000 over 1992:
Lowest quintile -- up 12.6%
Next lowest quintile -- up 14.8%
Highest quintile -- up 34.5%

Maybe that's where that phrase a rising tide lifts all boats came from.

[Arjay51]

Let's get back on topic in this discussion or start a seperate thread to continue as it is now going. By hijacking, all show their agenda.

[Pawporri]

Originally Posted by Predos

What are your opinions on the story of the far-left liberals wing trying to organize a boycott of advertisers on Fox for not admitting to a conserative point of view and, this is the big one, questioning global warming?

In my opinion, it sounds as if this liberal faction is concluding that we poor people cannot make our own decisions about these matters without them telling us what to think as opposed to the conservatives telling us what to think.

Liberals will not allow any questions as they have no answers. They want to stop talk radio, Fox news and shove they thinking down our throats. They will give away this country if allowed. It will not be allowed.........

Carrie

[saganista]

Originally Posted by RedNC

Well goody for you the rest of us were slammed to the ground by inflation and high interest rates.

So you think there is one inflation and interest rate for <saganista> and another one for everyone else? You're getting a little desperate, here, I think.

Originally Posted by RedNC

I bet you didn’t try to refinance toward the end of Carters term.

No, and not at any point during Reagan's first term either.

Originally Posted by RedNC

The interest rate was around 10.5% and that was considered a good rate. I qualified for first time buyer finance at 9.375%.

Ah, you did get a good deal then. And you could have made that very same deal in 1978. Thousands did. We are still looking for the first person who signed a commitment at the 18% rate that was claimed earlier to have been seen as attractive.

Originally Posted by RedNC

What you are leaving out with your statistics is the high inflation, the fumbling missteps by Carter, the uncertainty that everyone felt about the economy.

You do not absorb a near-overnight doubling of the share of GNP going to petroleum purchases without consequences. Carter purposely let inflation rise as a natural, market-based rationing and cost-sharing mechanism. Would have worked even better if Congress could have been convinced to provide temporary assistance to those on fixed incomes, but they weren't biting on that one. Did put the fear of God into OPEC though, as they confronted a future in which their unusable stocks of petro-dollars would lose half their purchasing power every six years. It has not been mere coincidence that OPEC has not been heard from as a cartel since.

Reagan of course was not willing to accept historically high inflation. He dealt with it by creating a depression, throwing an average of about 175,000 workers per month out of a job over the first two years of his administration. Even with 25 years of population growth intervening, there are not today anywhere near the numbers of unemployed Americans (7,121K) that there were at the end of 1982 (12,051K).

Originally Posted by RedNC

It seemed all Carter wanted to do is turn the other cheek when it came to foreign policy. Anyone remember the hostages?

Anyone remember the hostage rescue mission, undertaken by Carter even in the face of military advice that it was a longshot? Anyone remember how many of the hostages returned home alive? Anyone remember the Camp David Accords, SALT-II, or the Panama Canal Treaty?

Originally Posted by RedNC

Once Regan got into office, everyone I knew felt better about America and being an American. Those were great times. I only wish we had another Regan to vote for now.

Yeah, it's too bad Bob Keeshan died. Captain Kangaroo made people feel all warm and fuzzy about things too.

[saganista]

Originally Posted by tnbound2day

So now we blame things on a Republican before he even made it to office? Lol, you are out of touch.

Are you somehow so naive as to believe that markets actually postponed their reaction to Reagan's election until Inauguration Day??? If so, I don't think I'd be talking much about being out of touch, if I were you...

[RedNC]

Originally Posted by saganista

So you think there is one inflation and interest rate for <saganista> and another one for everyone else? You're getting a little desperate, here, I think.

No, just telling the real story about life during the Carter administration. If you saw them as the “golden years” then goody for you.

Originally Posted by saganista

Ah, you did get a good deal then. And you could have made that very same deal in 1978. Thousands did. We are still looking for the first person who signed a commitment at the 18% rate that was claimed earlier to have been seen as attractive.

Nice try. The bond financing I received wasn’t available during the Carter years, I tried every possible option at that time and was turned away. It wasn’t until Regan that I was able to get the financing I needed.

Originally Posted by saganista

It has not been mere coincidence that OPEC has not been heard from as a cartel since.

Yea, I never hear about OPEC anymore. EXCEPT EVERY TIME THE PRICE GOES DOWN AND THEY THREATEN TO CUT SUPPLIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by saganista

Anyone remember the hostage rescue mission, undertaken by Carter even in the face of military advice that it was a longshot?

Yea, I remember it was a huge failure. 5 USAF and 3 Marines died.

Originally Posted by saganista

Anyone remember how many of the hostages returned home alive? Anyone remember the Camp David Accords, SALT-II, or the Panama Canal Treaty?

You mean the Algiers Accords? Basically he retreated with his tail between his legs and we ended up paying all their debt. Great job Jimmy!

Originally Posted by saganista

Yeah, it's too bad Bob Keeshan died. Captain Kangaroo made people feel all warm and fuzzy about things too.

Captain Kangaroo did make people feel warm and fuzzy and he was a decorated war hero. Another great man that did great things for America.

[Fleet]

Originally Posted by saganista

Reagan of course was not willing to accept historically high inflation. He dealt with it by creating a depression, throwing an average of about 175,000 workers per month out of a job over the first two years of his administration.

For the last time, there was no depression at any time during the 1980s.
And Reagan didn't throw 175,000 workers per month out of a job; he inherited a sour economy from Carter. Remember, about 18 million jobs were created during his presidency.

[TriMT7]

Originally Posted by Fleet

For the last time, there was no depression at any time during the 1980s.
And Reagan didn't throw 175,000 workers per month out of a job; he inherited a sour economy from Carter. Remember, about 18 million jobs were created during his presidency.

Just thought I'd throw this graph out there:

http://www.musicforamerica.org/files/images/bushjobs-1323_640x480.png (broken link)

[Fleet]

Thanks for that graph. But I wonder why there is negative for G.W. Bush? Maybe those are the figures from the recession he inherited?

I do know that more than 8.3 million jobs have been created since Aug., 2003.
There have been 47 straight months in which jobs have been created.
1.8 million jobs have been created over the last 12 months ending in July of this year. And job growth keeps growing!