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Old 04-08-2011, 03:58 PM
 
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I really don't understand why so many people on here seem to be obsessed with homosexuality.
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Old 04-08-2011, 04:12 PM
 
26,680 posts, read 28,602,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
I really don't understand why so many people on here seem to be obsessed with homosexuality.
They've got their reasons. Why does it bother you?

I don't understand why so many people are obsessed with Hollywood celebrities, but whatever... I try to go by the adage of "Live and let live."
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Old 04-08-2011, 05:01 PM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,429,534 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunucu
I don't think any reasonable person will deny that homosexuals suffer greatly in other countries, particularly in Islamic countries. However, there is nothing any of us here in the US can do about it. When you started this thread, I was thinking it was to address criticism toward people who just think the term "homophobia" is tossed around with abandon to smear those who are not in lock step with the "gay rights movement" in this country.

Many people in many countries are discriminated against. Christians cannot openly practice their religion in Saudi Arabia. Europeans are safest if they stay out of Islamic enclaves in their own countries. Whites are safest if they stay out of black and Hispanic ghetto areas in this country. I need not even mention the atrocities Jews suffered in 1930's and 1940's Germany.

My point is--everyone is a victim, one way or another, one place or another. Homosexuals are not unique in that way
I totally understand your point and I am not disagreeing with you at all. I agree with you completely. I just don't think the fact that everyone is a victim in some way really makes it any less bad. It doesn't justify it.

There are things we in the U.S. can do. There are human rights foundations that work full-time just to report these cases, and other organizations like ORAM that try to help refugees seek asylum successfully. So there is something we can do about it. In fact, we can probably do more than the people in these situations because a lot of these people have no voice because the oppression runs so deep and because those countries don't have freedom of speech. So we can speak for those who can't speak for themselves.

I am not criticizing people who don't choose to be in lock step with the gay rights movement. I think we all need to figure out what we're most passionate about and go into that field because that's what we'll be the best at. Gay rights isn't everyone's career path. I am simply suggesting those who do talk about gay rights to look a bit further into it before they offer such strong opinions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uggabugga
if homophobia really means hating gays - can we please, finally, use another term for disagreeing with them?
Sure. What do you propose? (No sarcasm. I'm genuinely asking.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddy5
What if all the gays are wrong? What if it is against the laws of Nature. What if God really doesn't like homosexuality? They might/would be living a lie. Have ya'll ever thought about that, and all these thousands of years were correct in believing homosexuality is a scourge and abomination?
Even if that is the case--does that justify rape and murder? Disagreeing is one thing. Committing acts of violence is another.
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Old 04-08-2011, 05:09 PM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,429,534 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero
im not religous at all

the FACT is the gays keep saying it not a choice...ok...then it is GENETIC (you cant have it both ways )

so either its a choice ..or you are BORN with it, a GENETIC NEUROLOGICAL deformity...like autism
Most conditions are multifactorial, which means they have a genetic component and an environmental component, and both need to be present in order for the condition to arise.

Not only is it possible to have it both ways, most of the time it is both ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
most mentally ill dont recognize they are mentally ill
Even that's not true. Most mentally ill people know they are mentally ill. Take it from someone who has had a long history of PTSD. I was more aware of my PTSD than anyone else around me.

I also have several friends with bipolar disorder and schizophrenia and they know very well what they suffer from--in fact they understand it better than I ever will cause I've never experienced it firsthand.

That said, homosexuality isn't a mental illness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadell
Your attention sustains them. It's why I HATEA when people report on westboro. They are never in a place for more than 30 mins. They come and go before most even realize. Stories on the radio tv and Internet last a nice long time.

Just ignore em and they'll fade away.
The problem is they don't. I constantly hear the same comments on CD, which is what prompted me to start this thread in the first place.
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Old 04-08-2011, 06:26 PM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,958,104 times
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Can someone please explain to me why gay people consider their personal anecdotes about the way they believe they were born to be authoritative, yet you can hardly blink for them alleging whoever disagrees with them of being in the proverbial "closet"? In other words, they are very selective of which straight person's personal anecdotes they accept as authoritative about being straight.

I mean, they're essentially saying that everyone should take a gay person's word for it because they have confessed to what they, themselves, presume to be a trait that "no one would choose to admit to"; and therefore anyone who doesnt believe them is a 'bigot' or homophobe or whatever. Yet at any given moment, everyone else who disagrees with them is subject to being labeled a repressed homosexual by gays because those people are probably being repressed/dishonest with themselves? Im not saying either is right or wrong, but they just dont seem different at all. Gay people dont accept str8 people's anecdotal testimonials of who they claim to be either. They just label them "closeted" or repressed. Same concept. Either way you're questioning a person's credibility.

Really, why is it so implausible to think that gays arent being honest with themselves? Im not talking about the cliche "pastor who turns out to be gay scenario", or gay men who convert to heterosexuality or bisexuals. Im just talking about everyday people. I dont understand how it isnt a slap in the face when gays are accusing people who identify as straight of being closeted/dishonest about their sexuality, yet they turn around call who people dont accept their anecdotal testimonals about being gay 'bigots'. Again Im not saying either is right or wrong, but they just dont seem different at all.
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Old 04-08-2011, 06:36 PM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,429,534 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
Can someone please explain to me why gay people consider their personal anecdotes about the way they believe they were born to be authoritative, yet you can hardly blink for them alleging whoever disagrees with them of being in the proverbial "closet"? In other words, they are very selective of which straight person's personal anecdotes they accept as authoritative about being straight.

I mean, they're essentially saying that everyone should take a gay person's word for it because they have confessed to what they, themselves, presume to be a trait that "no one would choose to admit to"; and therefore anyone who doesnt believe them is a 'bigot' or homophobe or whatever. Yet at any given moment, everyone else who disagrees with them is subject to being labeled a repressed homosexual by gays because those people are probably being repressed/dishonest with themselves? Im not saying either is right or wrong, but they just dont seem different at all. Gay people dont accept str8 people's anecdotal testimonials of who they claim to be either. They just label them "closeted" or repressed. Same concept. Either way you're questioning a person's credibility.

Really, why is it so implausible to think that gays arent being honest with themselves? Im not talking about the cliche "pastor who turns out to be gay scenario", or gay men who convert to heterosexuality or bisexuals. Im just talking about everyday people. I dont understand how it isnt a slap in the face when gays are accusing people who identify as straight of being closeted/dishonest about their sexuality, yet they turn around call who people dont accept their anecdotal testimonals about being gay 'bigots'. Again Im not saying either is right or wrong, but they just dont seem different at all.
The answer is in numbers. It's not one gay person. It's the vast majority of gay people. If you measure something 1000 times and 900 of the times it comes out the same, you can safely assume the measurement that came out 900 times is accurate. If 900 people with a certain diagnosis complain of the same symptom, it's safe to assume that symptom is a symptom of that disease. (Note: not implying gayness is a disease--just using this as an example.) The same concept applies for gay people. 9 out of 10 gay people will tell you they always felt gay. They will tell you they don't remember a time in their life they weren't. It's not because it's personal anecdote, but because the anecdotes line up so well, and when that happens, it becomes empirical evidence. In addition to the vast majority of gays that report feeling the same way, science has started to provide explanations for why homosexuality exists and has found the same behavior in animals, who are not concerned with trying to act a certain way or put on a certain image. Another case worth mentioning (which ties into this thread) is that even people are severely persecuted for being gay remain gay. If gayness were a matter of choice, most people who were persecuted for being gay would probably become straight pretty quickly. However, the fact that a man or woman can be raped or tortured in an attempt to de-gay-ify them and still come out gay gives compelling evidence that homosexuality is a choice. Bring all those factors together and it becomes more and more clear with time that homosexuality is not a choice.

All that said, my intention is not to prove whether homosexuality is genetic or environmental, or whether it's a choice or inherent. The point to this thread is just to show others that homophobia very much exists, especially when you look outside the U.S, and that many gay rights violations are also fundamental human rights violations.
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Old 04-08-2011, 06:39 PM
 
Location: bold new city of the south
5,821 posts, read 5,289,632 times
Reputation: 7118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunucu Beach View Post
In that case, I propose that anyone who endorses, advocates for, encourages, lobbies for, approves, affirms, praises, engages in, celebrates, glorifies or exalts homosexuality henceforth be known as a homophile.

What's fair is fair.
Sooooooo,
(1)If you are anti-gay, you are a homophobe.
(2)If you are pro-gay, you are a homophile.
(3)If you don't care, are you a homodon'tgiveacrap?
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Old 04-08-2011, 07:02 PM
 
1,615 posts, read 2,569,512 times
Reputation: 808
Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
Can someone please explain to me why gay people consider their personal anecdotes about the way they believe they were born to be authoritative, yet you can hardly blink for them alleging whoever disagrees with them of being in the proverbial "closet"? In other words, they are very selective of which straight person's personal anecdotes they accept as authoritative about being straight.

I mean, they're essentially saying that everyone should take a gay person's word for it because they have confessed to what they, themselves, presume to be a trait that "no one would choose to admit to"; and therefore anyone who doesnt believe them is a 'bigot' or homophobe or whatever. Yet at any given moment, everyone else who disagrees with them is subject to being labeled a repressed homosexual by gays because those people are probably being repressed/dishonest with themselves? Im not saying either is right or wrong, but they just dont seem different at all. Gay people dont accept str8 people's anecdotal testimonials of who they claim to be either. They just label them "closeted" or repressed. Same concept. Either way you're questioning a person's credibility.

Really, why is it so implausible to think that gays arent being honest with themselves? Im not talking about the cliche "pastor who turns out to be gay scenario", or gay men who convert to heterosexuality or bisexuals. Im just talking about everyday people. I dont understand how it isnt a slap in the face when gays are accusing people who identify as straight of being closeted/dishonest about their sexuality, yet they turn around call who people dont accept their anecdotal testimonals about being gay 'bigots'. Again Im not saying either is right or wrong, but they just dont seem different at all.
Hmmm. FIRSTLY, being gay is not something that i 'wanted' so there would be no reason to not be 'honest' with myself. You make ABSOLUTELY no sense. I would simply just NOT BE GAY. I"m not 'trying to get away' with something. You speak as though being gay is some secret addiction, like alcoholism that we're trying to get away with.

And our 'testamonies' are not 'anectocal' they are LIVED by EXISTING. That's like saying a blind persons testimonial on being blind is an anectode. Keep insulting, you seem to be good at it.
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Old 04-08-2011, 07:26 PM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,429,534 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rlarson21 View Post
Hmmm. FIRSTLY, being gay is not something that i 'wanted' so there would be no reason to not be 'honest' with myself. You make ABSOLUTELY no sense. I would simply just NOT BE GAY. I"m not 'trying to get away' with something. You speak as though being gay is some secret addiction, like alcoholism that we're trying to get away with.

And our 'testamonies' are not 'anectocal' they are LIVED by EXISTING. That's like saying a blind persons testimonial on being blind is an anectode. Keep insulting, you seem to be good at it.
Plus there is something to be said for anecdote. My eye doctors have studied eye diseases in more depth than I ever probably will, but they still don't know how to use a cane, use a screen reader, read braille, recognize something by touch, recognize people by their hands, etc. I understand blindness from a personal perspective. There's a difference between knowing about something and experiencing it firsthand. Scientific researchers can understand homosexuality from an outside perspective but only gay people experience the day-to-day of being gay, so if someone wants to understand what it's like to be gay from a personal perspective, the first source to go to is gay people.
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Old 04-08-2011, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Boise
4,426 posts, read 5,905,698 times
Reputation: 1701
people who disagree with homosexuality, will hold on to those beliefs.. they are welcome to them. But when they share them in a public forum or think it is ok for their beliefs to become public policy.. we have a problem. Just because you believe something about homosexuality doesn't mean you're right. It means you choose to believe it as your own truth.
So you choose to demonize people on something you can't validate as factual yourself.
You may not HATE homosexuals, but at the very least you are calling them all liars and that YOU KNOW BETTER than them about it all.

it's really quite insulting really.
so next time you're insulted by being called a homophobe.. put yourself on the other end of your "beliefs" in other words learn to put yourself in other's shoes before you open your mouth and close your mind. At the very least YOU end up looking like an ignorant jerk...and we're suppose to tolerate it.. not any more!
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