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Perhaps modest women give them an opportunity to think about more important things. It is very difficult for men to control their sexual thoughts. I recall reading a report many years ago that the average male has a sexual thought about once every 10 seconds. By reducing the stimulus not only do you show respect for women, but you show respect for yourself and for men as well.
The feminine assets and beauty are reserved for the pleasure of the husband. Women who beat the wall and scream for equality often cite being treated as a "sex object" or "piece of meat" when it comes to their interactions with men. Then they turn around and expose their bodies in seductive ways. Men are like lions. You cannot throw a rib eye steak into a lions cage and expect him to ignore it! Women who respect themselves enough to be modest are usually rewarded with the respect from others. This is what feminists have not yet learned.
It is not a defect in men that they are this way. It is the way they were made/evolved (whichever you prefer). We cannot change the inherent psychological/physiological make up of humanity. We can only learn to deal with it in the most effective way.
20yrsinBranson
Yes, the most effective way is not for women to cover up and be uncomfortable, it's for MEN to "think about more important things" as you kindly suggest women do.
Thank you for calling me a rib eye steak, by the way.
Honestly I just think they should include that in their school program so Muslim students, along with everyone else, will be exposed to the same values as everyone else. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if they already are. I don't think Muslim women should be singled out. If they are exposed to gender equality values, and yet they continue to wear hijab, then the hijab is their choice, and therefore no longer a sign of oppression.
See, the genital mutilation might be their choice as well. If they are told that no one is going to marry them if they won't go through this *small but valuable* procedure, they might start looking forward to it as a "path to happiness." That's what their girls are taught to do - to brave it for future bliss in marriage.
I am aware of this side of the story. I've been to France myself many times. I have family in France.
Great, nothing like French people trying to be paternalistic and "protect the poor women"--while assuming all these women are forced into wearing their niqab. And because they don't bother to look into individual cases, they don't realize that many of these women choose to wear niqab.
Niqab and the oppression of women are two distinct ideas and concepts. The two need to stop being equated with each other. Yes, niqab is used as a tool for the oppression of women, but it does not stand for it. And the oppression of women happens all the time without enforcing niqab. The two can exist separately. Not all niqabis are oppressed women; not all oppressed women wear niqab.
And how do French authorities should "look into individual cases?" To screen each and every Islamic family in the country on their beliefs and the way they raise their children? To get into their heads on top of that, to figure out what they are saying is true or not?
If that would have been a case, the authorities in each and every country would have known long time ago who is a "moderate muslim" and who is potential "freedom fighter" and suicide-bomber. Sounds nice, but unrealistic. Case closed.
Perhaps modest women give them an opportunity to think about more important things. It is very difficult for men to control their sexual thoughts. I recall reading a report many years ago that the average male has a sexual thought about once every 10 seconds. By reducing the stimulus not only do you show respect for women, but you show respect for yourself and for men as well.
The feminine assets and beauty are reserved for the pleasure of the husband. Women who beat the wall and scream for equality often cite being treated as a "sex object" or "piece of meat" when it comes to their interactions with men. Then they turn around and expose their bodies in seductive ways. Men are like lions. You cannot throw a rib eye steak into a lions cage and expect him to ignore it! Women who respect themselves enough to be modest are usually rewarded with the respect from others. This is what feminists have not yet learned.
It is not a defect in men that they are this way. It is the way they were made/evolved (whichever you prefer). We cannot change the inherent psychological/physiological make up of humanity. We can only learn to deal with it in the most effective way.
20yrsinBranson
While your thoughts have some merits, they also have big flows.
Quote:
The feminine assets and beauty are reserved for the pleasure of the husband.
Are they reserved for the husband that muslim women has chosen willingly, in the same manner that she chooses him in the West?
Quote:
Women who beat the wall and scream for equality often cite being treated as a "sex object" or "piece of meat" when it comes to their interactions with men. Then they turn around and expose their bodies in seductive ways. Men are like lions. You cannot throw a rib eye steak into a lions cage and expect him to ignore it!
Is it an obligation for women in the Western society to "expose their bodies in seductive ways?"
Obviously not. Every women in the West has a choice how she wants to present herself. They are not stoned or punished for not "exposing their bodies," but sometimes they have to pay price for being unwise. They do have a choice. Muslim women don't.
Hence the conclusion - western men are far more courageous and intelligent. Men in Islamic countries are more cowardly and weak. Instead of fighting *sin* in themselves, they put the blame on woman and punish her as a perceived reason of their own failure.
Having a sexual perspective is a basic part of being a human being. Natures design draws us together to create more of us. It is the goal of creation and we, men and women play our parts to whatever degree we choose or don't choose. Maybe that strikes at the core of something else in France. Sexuality is part of the culture and deeply embedded and imbued. That garment basically shuts quite a bit of that to "off". Maybe that is another reason the French did what they did.
Let me ask...in some Muslim countries, are non-Muslim women required to wear a burka, naqab or other covering? If so, that is a clear cut violation of basic human decency. You can make the arguement that it's their country, their culture, which is fine. Why then is the banning of wearing a symbol of oppression an any different? If I'm not mistake, Germany bans the wearing of the Swastaka.
In some European churches, women are required to have their legs covered, no skirts. Not exactly the same thing, I know, but the burkha and niqab are an extension of the same rule that the Abrahamic religions (Christianity, Islam, Judaism) share: women must be modest before God.
While Germany forbids the Nazi swastika, they are permitted in pre-Christian historical or religious contexts.
See, the genital mutilation might be their choice as well. If they are told that no one is going to marry them if they won't go through this *small but valuable* procedure, they might start looking forward to it as a "path to happiness." That's what their girls are taught to do - to brave it for future bliss in marriage.
Thank you for addressing this forbidden topic. You see, the burqua, veil, etc., etc. is only the tip of the iceberg in the oppression of women. Infant females have bled to death and died from infection stemming from genital mutilation, as well as thousands of other women who suffer complications throughout their lives. The female babies had NO CHOICE. The Koran does not instruct or advocate fgm. Nor does it mandate veils. Both have evolved in the context of religious, societal, and cultural male domination. Women are psychological hostages (and in some cases physical hostages) to male oppressors. Banning the burqua is merely a step in the right direction, but it is a reasonable step, an honorable step, and a step toward freedom.
Thank you for addressing this forbidden topic. You see, the burqua, veil, etc., etc. is only the tip of the iceberg in the oppression of women. Infant females have bled to death and died from infection stemming from genital mutilation, as well as thousands of other women who suffer complications throughout their lives. The female babies had NO CHOICE. The Koran does not instruct or advocate fgm. Nor does it mandate veils. Both have evolved in the context of religious, societal, and cultural male domination. Women are psychological hostages (and in some cases physical hostages) to male oppressors. Banning the burqua is merely a step in the right direction, but it is a reasonable step, an honorable step, and a step toward freedom.
While your thoughts have some merits, they also have big flows.
Are they reserved for the husband that muslim women has chosen willingly, in the same manner that she chooses him in the West?
Is it an obligation for women in the Western society to "expose their bodies in seductive ways?"
Obviously not. Every women in the West has a choice how she wants to present herself. They are not stoned or punished for not "exposing their bodies," but sometimes they have to pay price for being unwise. They do have a choice. Muslim women don't.
Hence the conclusion - western men are far more courageous and intelligent. Men in Islamic countries are more cowardly and weak. Instead of fighting *sin* in themselves, they put the blame on woman and punish her as a perceived reason of their own failure.
Here's how all that plays out in real time...I was a flight attendant for the worlds largest charter airline (at the time) involved in transporting Muslim people from Nigeria to Mecca during the Hadj. As an airline employee I, along with my colleagues, was attired in our regulation (and modest) uniform. When we landed cleaners and caterers boarded the aircraft to ready it for the return flight. What we experienced (in Mecca) from the male Muslim workers was disgusting. The only word to describe it is lacivious. They panted and stuck out wiggling tongues, they gripped their genitals, they tried to touch us. In short, they acted like pigs. Our recourse was to inform the Captain, ex- Marine and Vietnam Vet that he was, he transcended all language barriers in his communication and their actions ceased, for that flight, but until the "Captains Law" became known, these people acted out on a regular basis. We were on contract for a month and I could not wait to get out of there.
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