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Oh, thanks for letting me know. I was under the impression it didn't have freedom of religion. All the more reason they shouldn't ban the burqa.
Constitutions, like religions, are created by men, and far from immutable. More and more, the tacit clause "except for Islam" will materialize in the minds of lawmakers in France and other ostensibly secular countries. I suspect that around the world, non-Muslim countries are developing the view that Islam will be tolerated to the extent that there is reciprocity in the tolerance of non-Muslim religions in Muslim countries.
I really don't think it's fair to draw this link given the huge number of peaceful Muslim women that wear hijab. Wearing hijab doesn't automatically make you a violent person.
What "really?" Did I say that there were no muslims in Russia?
I've said that Islam was successfully controlled through Soviet times and one of the aspects of this control was the assurance of equal rights for muslim women, that essentially goes against Islamic philosophy.
Also, I am not going to get into the details how Islam in Kazan differs from Islam in Caucasus and why, but the fact remains; when NO woman in Russia was wearing hijab, there was no subway explosions, there was no hostage taking. If you think it's a mere coincidence, think twice.
I'd take it a step further and even say that the more a government tries to oppress its people, the more those people try to act out. When people are pushed, they feel the need to resist. If they are pushed into hyper-morality, they are going to resist in the opposite direction. That's why Russia today is very religious--because of the previously enforced atheism. Like they always say: "if you want a country full of atheists, enforce religion. If you want a country full of religion, enforce atheism."
The reason of Russia's religiousness today is of a very different nature then you suggest. Religion in Russia today is enforced and pushed on general population by Russian government, that is in bed with the high-ranking clergy of ROC ( Russian Orthodox Church,) that is not less corrupt then Russian government itself. After everything that took place in the nineties, the Christian mores of the society that were more or less in place during Soviet times, became practically obsolete. The unofficial slogan that anything in this world can be bought or sold, (the only question is a price, ) became the major force of the society; it became so criminal and corrupt, that the authorities who were the culprit of this demise turned to church in attempt to establish at least the resemblance of the morality in the society. Which, it its turn, created the new host of problems, since in many ways the reinforcement of Russian Orthodoxy brought the revival of Islam.
It's a well-known Western stereotype that religion was forbidden in the Soviet Union. In the reality atheism was enforced during the first years of the Soviet rule, but during the second World War ( or Great Patriotic war as it has been called there,) Stalin allowed to reopen churches, because he has realized that people had to turn somewhere during the national catastrophe that the WWII really was.
Of course the number of churches was much smaller during Soviet times comparably to pre-revolutionary times, but people were allowed to worship nevertheless. (There were certain non-Orthodox, baptist churches that were outlawed by Soviet government (and Catholic Church in Western Ukraine I think,) but it was a different matter.)
What "really?" Did I say that there were no muslims in Russia?
I've said that Islam was successfully controlled through Soviet times and one of the aspects of this control was the assurance of equal rights for muslim women, that essentially goes against Islamic philosophy.
Also, I am not going to get into the details how Islam in Kazan differs from Islam in Caucasus and why, but the fact remains; when NO woman in Russia was wearing hijab, there was no subway explosions, there was no hostage taking. If you think it's a mere coincidence, think twice.
Oh, I misunderstood. I was under the impression that Russia had a sizable Muslim population. I was just surprised. Thanks.
That said, there are plenty of other countries with peaceful Muslims. While there are some violent individuals who claim Islam as their reason for being violent, there are infinitely more peaceful Muslims. It's just the violent ones that make the most noise, but we shouldn't forget that there are plenty of people who succeed in being both Muslim and peaceful.
Last edited by nimchimpsky; 04-15-2011 at 07:52 AM..
The reason of Russia's religiousness today is of a very different nature then you suggest. Religion in Russia today is enforced and pushed on general population by Russian government, that is in bed with the high-ranking clergy of ROC ( Russian Orthodox Church,) that is not less corrupt then Russian government itself. After everything that took place in the nineties, the Christian mores of the society that were more or less in place during Soviet times, became practically obsolete. The unofficial slogan that anything in this world can be bought or sold, (the only question is a price, ) became the major force of the society; it became so criminal and corrupt, that the authorities who were the culprit of this demise turned to church in attempt to establish at least the resemblance of the morality in the society. Which, it its turn, created the new host of problems, since in many ways the reinforcement of Russian Orthodoxy brought the revival of Islam.
It's a well-known Western stereotype that religion was forbidden in the Soviet Union. In the reality atheism was enforced during the first years of the Soviet rule, but during the second World War ( or Great Patriotic war as it has been called there,) Stalin allowed to reopen churches, because he has realized that people had to turn somewhere during the national catastrophe that the WWII really was.
Of course the number of churches was much smaller during Soviet times comparably to pre-revolutionary times, but people were allowed to worship nevertheless. (There were certain non-Orthodox, baptist churches that were outlawed by Soviet government (and Catholic Church in Western Ukraine I think,) but it was a different matter.)
Based on my own observations, I have a hard time believing religion is "forced" on Russians today. When I was studying in Russia and visiting other parts, I was hard-pressed to find a Russian who wasn't super Orthodox Christian. People used to constantly bother me about not wearing a cross. They even tried to celebrate my name birthday after I told them I'm not religious and really not into it. They used to try to drag me to church and even to a monastery. A lot of people were religious to the point it was borderline annoying. I wouldn't exactly call that "being forced."
Perhaps this lack of control men have over their thoughts that you've postulated is the reason that rapists in some Muslim countries aren't prosecuted, whereas the female victim might be stoned to death for fornication or adultery (depending on marital status).
I don't believe that Muslim men do not have control over their thoughts/actions. But in their culture they are taught that a woman who does not cover herself is a **** and not worthy of respect. Trust me when I tell you that Muslim men have the same healthy urges as men of any other race or nation. But, they respect women who respect themselves enough to be modest, and under those circumstances control those thoughts and actions quite successfully.
Based on my own observations, I have a hard time believing religion is "forced" on Russians today. When I was studying in Russia and visiting other parts, I was hard-pressed to find a Russian who wasn't super Orthodox Christian. People used to constantly bother me about not wearing a cross. They even tried to celebrate my name birthday after I told them I'm not religious and really not into it. They used to try to drag me to church and even to a monastery. A lot of people were religious to the point it was borderline annoying. I wouldn't exactly call that "being forced."
While some people turned to religion out of desperation amidst chaos around them, and others - in search of spiritual guidance ( in this case they wouldn't necessarily turn to Orthodoxy or Islam, but rather to "Hare Krishna" or other forms of cult,) for the most part it was not a sign of healthy society, that's why most likely you felt that it was "borderline annoying."
But if you have hard time to believe that at the same time religion is forced on Russians, than have a look please;
I don't believe that Muslim men do not have control over their thoughts/actions. But in their culture they are taught that a woman who does not cover herself is a **** and not worthy of respect.
20yrsinBranson
Oh, that's just great - so what now, we all have to act according to what muslim men were taught in their culture?
And where do we stop may I ask - does THIS sound about right?
Trust me when I tell you that Muslim men have the same healthy urges as men of any other race or nation. But, they respect women who respect themselves enough to be modest, and under those circumstances control those thoughts and actions quite successfully.
And why should we trust you, on what ground?
Because as far as I am concerned, Muslim men DO NOT have "same healthy urges as men of any other race or nation."
Their religion allows them to act upon lust ( i.e unhealthiest motives of them all,) and at the same time feel "clean" and justified, because the sin (according to their believes) is not within them, but within the women.
Last edited by erasure; 04-15-2011 at 06:46 PM..
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