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Vancouver, BC - Restrictive firearm legislation has failed to reduce gun violence in Australia, Canada, or Great Britain. The policy of confiscating guns has been an expensive failure, according to a new paper The Failed Experiment: Gun Control and Public Safety in Canada, Australia, England and Wales, released today by The Fraser Institute.
The United States provides a valuable point of comparison for assessing crime rates as that country has witnessed a dramatic drop in criminal violence over the past decade – for example, the homicide rate in the US has fallen 42 percent since 1991. This is particularly significant when compared with the rest of the world – in 18 of the 25 countries surveyed by the British Home Office, violent crime increased during the 1990s.
England and Wales
Both Conservative and Labour governments have introduced restrictive firearms laws over the past 20 years; all handguns were banned in 1997.
Yet in the 1990s alone, the homicide rate jumped 50 percent, going from 10 per million in 1990 to 15 per million in 2000. While not yet as high as the US, in 2002 gun crime in England and Wales increased by 35 percent. This is the fourth consecutive year that gun crime has increased.
Australia
The Australian government made sweeping changes to the firearms legislation in 1997. However, the total homicide rate, after having remained basically flat from 1995 to 2001, has now begun climbing again. While violent crime is decreasing in the United States, it is increasing in Australia.
Canada
The contrast between the criminal violence rates in the United States and in Canada is dramatic. Over the past decade, the rate of violent crime in Canada has increased while in the United States the violent crime rate has plummeted. The homicide rate is dropping faster in the US than in Canada.
Not sure, why Americans think other countries have better laws or ways, than the U.S.A.
I just have a question for anyone, both sides of the gun control issue, answer this for me.
If in fact, that other countries such as Sweden have high gun ownership but not high gun related crime, then why? Why do we? What makes us in the top 5 of countries with violence?
If in fact, it isn't the gun laws in countries like Japan, Canada, England that makes them safer then what is it?
Are Americans more insane, violent by nature than other human beings? If that is so, why on earth would we make sure to arm them with weapons? I would think that would be a better argument than anything. Shouldn't we be banning weapons in a country full of hostile humans?
I really just don't get it. If you know of another reason why you think we have such a high incidence of gun violence in America then please let me in on it.
For me, on either side it points to gun control, no weapons, etc.
If gun control works in other countries than we should do it, if others are just not as violent than America and they can have little gun violence despite owning more weapons then we should definitely not arm Americans, right? We should get them out of here ASAP.
Either way it points to gun control and a revision of our constitution because we have changed and become crazy people since you had the right to a militia. Right?????
If I am wrong, please tell me why? Why would this not be the logical future of such a violent place?
Can't speak for the Swede's, maybe they are too busy getting drunk on Vodka and getting into car accidents....I dunno.....you have to look at this a different way, there is very little theft in the Middle East but why? Answer, you might lose a hand if you try to challenge that theory. I know that there are less murders in other countries but, again, you have to look at all the reasons why.
The trappings of a free (somewhat anyway) society means you will have to take the bad with the good? Sure, we have millions of guns and I do my level best to keep that number up but, I am also quite responsible with them. Hey, we let certain fringe groups protest in cemteries where we lay to rest our fallen soldiers, we let dictator's speak at Columbia, we let whacked out College Professors preach n' teach in Colorado. I even understand we have an ex-president that get's BJ's in the Whitehouse (OUR White House mind you), suborns perjury and is still in the hunt to learn what the definition of is......is......if we can survive all that, I can't see why a little gun ownership is all that bad.
Probably the only miracle is that we didn't shoot those protesting in cemeteries, visiting dictators who once held 51 Americans hostage, out of touch College Professors with tenure, and slick Willie when he was nailed as a crook. What's next? A former Governor of Illinois getting off the hook? A President who has NO idea of how to run an economy let alone, a country.....even a "free" one?
I dare say we have consistently shown amazing restraint with said assets in the most dire, critical, questionable, circumspect and criminal behavior our leaders have to offer and yet, we have not shot too many of them......now have we? In fact, I would say we have one of the highest non-murder rates per gun in the entire world. It's probably safe to say that based on the RATIO of guns in America to legal and non-legal citizens we have one of the LOWEST homicide rates known to mankind.
Said another way, we have done a tremendous job of keeping a lid on things. And lest YOU forget, that guy/gal that might be LEGALLY carrying one could step in to save YOUR life someday.....Perhaps you should consider giving us a gold star on some other innocuous blog about how GOOD we are doing considering the millions and millions of firearms we have in our hands today. Besides, can you even imagine trying to get the Genie back in this bottle? Go ahead, give it your best shot...good luck with that....about as successful as getting Auerilio, Julio, and Jesus back over the border......See? The glass really is half-full when you have ALL the facts in front of you.
You know, we also have 1.8 cars per US household. Needless to say, we have a higher auto fatality rate than anyone in the world too my friend. Should we dump the autos? The ONLY reason no one else enjoys this badge of honor is because they can't AFFORD to have 1.8 cars...besides, I've seen the "World's Most Dangerous Roads"....you think we should give THEM more cars? Ahhhh, my 4 safes are chock full of weapons sleeping quietly until such day as they may be called upon to do their duty be it sport or otherwise.....but, hey, you will be happy to know that I am downsizing. I'm tuning my collection to more assault rifles just in case that pesky neighbor of mine decides he wants to start some ill-fated argument too. Besides, I'll have less to clean in the future.....See? A quiet stockpile in a clean, neat suburban neighborhood and nooooooo one is the wiser.......and noooooooo one is at risk today, tomorrow, or probably in the future.
You might, however, be a bit dismayed to know that all 4 kids are steadily gaining their skills too to include the proper use, storage, cleaning and ALL gun laws so they too, can become part of this great, silent majority. In fact, my Daughter is so good with a .22 that I'll send her out to dispatch whatever ails us in the burbs now, or in the future so I don't miss my NFL and SEC highlight reels......never did like my neighbor's Bishon anyway.....always yapping.....
Hey, Southeast Adventure is having a sale on Glocks next week, anyone besides me in?
Last edited by Caleb Longstreet; 04-22-2011 at 05:21 PM..
What are the countries in the bottom 10 doing right?
They don't care to be politically correct....they take crime serious, you mess up you loose....What happens here in the states....a criminal knows they can get away with most anything...
I just have a question for anyone, both sides of the gun control issue, answer this for me.
If in fact, that other countries such as Sweden have high gun ownership but not high gun related crime, then why? Why do we? What makes us in the top 5 of countries with violence?
If in fact, it isn't the gun laws in countries like Japan, Canada, England that makes them safer then what is it?
Are Americans more insane, violent by nature than other human beings? If that is so, why on earth would we make sure to arm them with weapons? I would think that would be a better argument than anything. Shouldn't we be banning weapons in a country full of hostile humans?
I really just don't get it. If you know of another reason why you think we have such a high incidence of gun violence in America then please let me in on it.
For me, on either side it points to gun control, no weapons, etc.
If gun control works in other countries than we should do it, if others are just not as violent than America and they can have little gun violence despite owning more weapons then we should definitely not arm Americans, right? We should get them out of here ASAP.
Either way it points to gun control and a revision of our constitution because we have changed and become crazy people since you had the right to a militia. Right?????
If I am wrong, please tell me why? Why would this not be the logical future of such a violent place?
Quote:
Originally Posted by twiggy
Defend what? I asked the question to both sides, I didn't make an argument, you did, I asked a question.
All I am getting from you is that you have no answer. That's fine, you don't need to answer.
I am assuming from your post that you don't believe we even have a gun related crime issue in America. Ok, well then, I can see why you don't answer.
You pose a false straw man, include very biased articles(with old data) in your second response. And you say you don't have an opinion. Right.
You state several, "if in fact " statements. All I ask is you provide data to support if they are facts or not. You got the info some where. I didn't.
You tell us if they are facts or not. Use current datea not from 1994.
IMO, yes we have crimes committed with guns. Do we have a gun violence problem? No
Every gun starts off with a law abiding citizen, it is legal but it filters through society and winds up in a criminals hands. We have A LOT of filtering going down the pike. That is the difference. We, legal citizens, supply the criminals with weapons eventually, that is how it makes a difference when a country doesn't allow guns at all.
Yes, some ass will still sit at home and widdle one as to kill his neighbor, but it will take longer. So, some countries have people getting shot, yes, with all the gun control they still get shot, but America has people getting shot like a fast food restaurant, or as someone so clearly pointed like countries in civil wars.
My question is "why do you think that is?"
Sure, that might work in a fantasy world, but here in the real world criminals will still have access to the same illegal guns they have now. Tech 9's, uzi's, etc. are all over the streets already. Cocaine, meth, herion, ectsacy, and pot are all "outlawed" currently also, how's that working out?
Every gun starts off with a law abiding citizen, it is legal but it filters through society and winds up in a criminals hands. We have A LOT of filtering going down the pike. That is the difference.
The punishment for giving a gun to a felon is too light.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twiggy
it makes a difference when a country doesn't allow guns at all.
Mexico doesn't allow citizens to own guns. How is that working out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by twiggy
Yes, some ass will still sit at home and widdle one as to kill his neighbor, but it will take longer.
Guns don't make people violent. I have been around guns all of my life. Growing up, they were never locked up. I was shown at a very young age what a .30 caliber rifle bullet would do when it hit flesh. That flesh was tasty venison but I understood the power behind the bullet.
I've never started a fight. Heck, the only "fights" I've been in were scuffles during high school football. I don't go looking for trouble. In fact, carrying a concealed weapon means that I can't escalate any situation even if I didn't start it.
I carry a pistol every place I can legally carry it. In fact, I avoid a lot of places because I can't carry there. Starting in July, I will be able to carry everywhere except courtrooms and federal buildings in the state because I have had additional training with my weapon.
I don't think Europeans are more tame or obedient or whatever you seem to imply.
Most Americans use weapons against each other, not against some oppressive leaders.
Nor did the majority of today's Europeans ever live in monarchies, let alone real ones where the king or queen had actually anything to say. They only know those things from history books.
Most Americans never use a weapon against anyone. It's a very small percentage of the population that does, and most of the time when it happens it's criminals shooting other criminals.
Why punish 100,000,000 law abiding gun owners because a few thousand people commit crimes?
Because we're idiots and do not understand the fundamental premise behind the second amendment.
Liberal elitism and false sense of superiority at its best. This, as well as a pre-occupation with spelling errors, is a defining characteristic of liberal behavior. Take home message- everyone who does not embrace the religion of liberalism is an "idiot". Such beliefs is what makes liberals "tolerant". I understand the liberal pre-occupation with false empathy for the poor and appreciation of tyranny, yet you cannot afford me the ownership of a few guns. It is somewhat inhospitable and not in the sense of tolerance and acceptance of differing views.
Perhaps you could share your enlightened superior intellect and discuss the 2nd amendment and tell us it is just all about "militias". This contention is only for the truely ignorant who have not read the writings of Jefferson. Given that most liberals revere the words of Stalin over those of Jefferson, it is not suprising that they are not familiar with his writings. The Jefferson papers are very, very long. Socialism and communism is very, very simple, thus the appeal of those who are frustrated with more complicated concepts such as "freedom", "liberty", and "individual rights". Totalitarianism is easily digested by the obtuse and thus appeals to the simple tastes of that palate. I understand that liberty and personal freedom is not for everyone, and that totalitarianism has an appeal for the weak of heart and mind who cannot stand the burden of personal responsibility.
Signed-
Gun owner
Last edited by hawkeye2009; 04-22-2011 at 08:47 PM..
Liberal elitism and false sense of superiority at its best. This, as well as a pre-occupation with spelling errors, is a defining characteristic of liberal behavior. Take home message- everyone who does not embrace the religion of liberalism is an "idiot". Such beliefs is what makes liberals "tolerant". I understand the liberal pre-occupation with false empathy for the poor and appreciation of tyranny, yet you cannot afford me the ownership of a few guns. It is somewhat inhospitable and not in the sense of tolerance and acceptance of differing views.
Perhaps you could share your enlightened superior intellect and discuss the 2nd amendment and tell us it is just all about "militias". This contention is only for the truely ignorant who have not read the writings of Jefferson. Given that most liberals revere the words of Stalin over those of Jefferson, it is not suprising that they are not familiar with his writings. The Jefferson papers are very, very long. Socialism and communism is very, very simple, thus the appeal of those who are frustrated with more complicated concepts such as "freedom", "liberty", and "individual rights". Totalitarianism is easily digested by the obtuse and thus appeals to the simple tastes of that palate. I understand that liberty and personal freedom is not for everyone, and that totalitarianism has an appeal for the weak of heart and mind who cannot stand the burden of personal responsibility.
They don't care to be politically correct....they take crime serious, you mess up you loose....What happens here in the states....a criminal knows they can get away with most anything...
Bring out the cane!
What ever works, I'm tired of being the society of "fear", where every citizen feels like they have to be packin just to go get groceries. I use to just worry about the criminals, now I have to worry about who will be pulling our their defense and if they know what their doing and don't shoot up everyone in the process of playing Clink Eastwood. Maybe if we brought out the cane everyone could relax. lol
It's getting hard to separate the murder from the protector when everyones in the game. I don't get what all the fears about? I understand hunting and admire someone eating what they shoot, to me more admirable than walking into the meat section, but the "fear" carrying I don't get. Most gun owners I know don't live in the hood. I'm looking for an answer to why everyone is so afraid, enough to carry a gun everywhere they go?
Americans are so afraid of each other, why is that?
When I ask this I am not being sarcastic, I really don't get it? I'm not afraid to go to the grocery store unarmed, it seems silly to me to need a gun under my pillow, but reading through this thread and others, seems I'm being naive. I am seeing a lot of people ARE afraid, this gets back to the original thread, why are we? Or is it the whole world and some countries just suppress it with the cane? Or, do some countries find if they lesson peoples fears they will feel safe enough to not carry a gun.
People will have no problem saying the most dangerous animal is a "scared" animal but they don't equate that with humans. Why not?
Living in AZ, your wife having PMS takes on a whole new meaning when she is carrying around a pistol that she never had training to use. lol Not to mention traffic congestion. It's unsettling to say the least.
I read a lot that people with guns love AZs gun laws, no permit, no checks, you can pick up a gun easily with no training required, just go to the swap meet. Is this really what gun owners want to see? Weapons sold in circle K?
I'll have a 12 pk, some smokes oh, and this gun please. Does this really sound great to gun actvists? Or, would you like some rules of any kind?
I'm not being sarcastic here, please answer honestly so I can clearly find some logic in this gun toting society. I wasn't raised with guns, except for hunting. I truly want to understand this ideal. So far all I'm getting is that "you want to get them before they get you!" A gun makes a man cooler, tougher, etc. Is it the "Urban Cowboy" thing?
I take away from these statements that you are afraid of crime and you also think it looks cooler to have a gun......... Am I close on this?
Is there more to it?
Oh, and enough with the "bill of rights", it's not as if we as a country follow the rest of it that well. Number 4 has been thrown out the window already so lets stick to personal reasons, not general. I want to know why you personally carry a gun around with you. Unless I guess if you are afraid of the government and that is why you carry.
I don't because I feel it isn't necessary, I'm not afraid of most places and if I am I just don't go. I don't have worries about where I go in my daily life, what ifs, not enough to care. I have gone hunting, but I just had the gun while hunting, otherwise I didn't feel it necessary to have it on me.
Maybe you just like it, think it's cool, I get that, just state that. At least that would be a clearer, more understandable reason to me then, "you never know when you have to use it", what is that? Sounds like a movie line or something. lol Be real, you can't all be that afraid right?
If you don't feel I need to know why, then just don't post it.
Oh, and if you just feel I'm a troll then skip it. I get tired of the "troll" word used for people who ask what others don't want to hear. It's stupid, grow up.
The only thing that should be worse to you than being a troll is answering someone you think is a troll, how stupid is that! Don't do it.
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Not soooo fast my friend.....
I am seeing a lot of people ARE afraid, this gets back to the original thread, why are we? Or is it the whole world and some countries just suppress it with the cane? Or, do some countries find if they lesson peoples fears they will feel safe enough to not carry a gun. 
