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And just where do you think gasoline comes from? And how do you suppose to separate gasoline prices from net energy costs? They are indeed joined at the hip ... even competitive technologies are affected by one another. Huge increases in oil tend to be followed by competitive increases in natural gas.
Do you seriously think that oil is the only source of energy?
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Ahh, everything is more clear now. You're making proposals based on false information. There is no peak oil .. we are not running out of oil ... and as defined earlier, current oil prices are half of what they were in 1957 (adjusted) so that kinda puts that supply/demand issue in jeopardy.
The reality is, oil, contrary to what you've been told, is not a product of rotting vegetation and dinosaur carcasses. This might have made some sense when shallow oil wells were the only game in town, but the technology to drill MILES into the earth and the discovery of huge pools deep into the earth should have raised more eyebrows than it did. No way can this be explained by pockets of rotting vegetation/dead animals. Oil is abiotic, and is manufactured by the earth ... and there seems to be no expiration date on when that production will cease.
Furthermore, just in the US alone, massive oil reserves have been found which dwarf Saudi Arabia and any other field known to exist around the world, much of which was found in the 1970's and classified. So the peak oil lie was always a lie ... not just a mistake. They know we have plenty of oil.
We have enough oil in the US to provide for our needs based on current rates of increased usage, for thenext 100 + years, and likely well into the 22nd century, while also becoming the world's largest exporter too.
Peak oil ... CO2 caused GW ... fermented dinosaur carcasses ... all a buch of pure bunk.
Logically, you'd see the big oil companies developing and promoting alternative energy at a feverish pace if we were indeed running out of oil. They've been suppressing alternative energy technologies, which is tacit proof of no oil shortage.
Have you done ANY research? We are not running out of oil? At the current rate Exxon itself (a company RELYING on oil to survive) estimates we have less than 70 years of capacity. The numbers you are citing (I have seen them before) assume no population growth (a very ignorant position).
Please post your sources that show that the US has found fields which 'dwarf Saudi Arabia'. That is laughable, at best. I am going based on facts, not conspiracy theories.
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This is perhaps the best example of how dangerous the uninformed can be. Not only do you buy the BS ... but agree with it's goals. Rickshaws for everyone! Except of course, the overlords ... they still get to keep their private jets and yachts and 1000 acre compounds and 40 room mansions ... we the people just need to give up these "unsustainable" decadent lifestyles like having a back yard for our kids and dog to run around in.
Unlike you, I don't equate living closer to a city with a lack of wealth. Cars are more of a burden to families than a benefit in my opinion.
Your opinion is the dangerous one. You are so set in your ways that you flat out refuse to even try to think of something that is different than how you have lived for the last 30 years. Shame on you.
I live in a city. My entire lot is 900 sqft. I have a dog, and guess what? He does just great! I walk two blocks to a park and let my dog run around, and I get to meet my neighbors, talk and be social in the process. We do not have an unalienable right to a backyard with a white picket fence. That is a distinctly oil-driven, Americanized phenomenon.
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Small farmers? Who need em' when we can have a few mega-farms owned by Monsanto and all of the lovely GMO food that eats YOU from the inside out. And since there will be no backyards in your "brave new world" ... no backyard gardens ... who likes those homegrown tomatos anyway when you can have the hi-tech tomato gene spliced with cockroach genes from the laboratory ... yum yum.
No one DOES need small farmers. They are a romantic notion, like a horse drawn carriage. They were useful once, but we have moved beyond that.
And don't be foolish. I personally grow enough veggies on my balcony to sustain most of what I eat. Do a search for 'urban farming'. You don't need acres and acres to grow food for your own home. It is also hard to take someone seriously who uses the term 'cockroach genes' and tomatoes in the same sentence.
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And hey, lets make live in hi-rise urban centers ... stack em and pack em .. after all, they are just human sheeple ... we can keep them just like we keep millions of Tyson chickens ... all cooped up in a tiny space. AMEN, Brother, AMEN.
So you think a person's worth is tied to the stuff they have? How unbelievably sad. I think it is incredibly depressing that people live alone in the suburbs or country. They go to their house, have their yard, their stuff, but no one else. Urban living allows people to interact more, be social, get to know people, you know...the things that make humans into a civilization rather than just a collection of individuals.
If you define your self-worth by how much land you have, or how big your house is (which it seems like you do), then there are bigger issues at hand than farming and energy.
I thread about Exxon and taxes would not be complete without pointing out that much of the taxes they claim "they" paid is the federal, state and local sales taxes. Technically those taxes are paid by the purchaser. Remember the day when the purchaser could deduct sales taxes on your tax returns? Even today if you purchase highway diesel for off road,farming,construction, power generation,etc, YOU can claim a deduction for the federal road use taxes built into the price of highway diesel.
Fact is Exxon is trying to claim they pay taxes that the consumer pays because they collect those taxes at the end of their supply line and send them into the government for us. Those are taxes we pay. That exactly why Exxon's statements about how much they pay are nebulous.
Fact is Exxon is trying to claim they pay taxes that the consumer pays because they collect those taxes at the end of their supply line and send them into the government for us. Those are taxes we pay. That exactly why Exxon's statements about how much they pay are nebulous.
Sorry to disappoint you but ALL corporate taxes are paid for by consumers. Sales taxes are just more visible.
Do you seriously think that oil is the only source of energy?
Of course not ... but it is the PRIMARY source.
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Originally Posted by hnsq
Have you done ANY research? We are not running out of oil? At the current rate Exxon itself (a company RELYING on oil to survive) estimates we have less than 70 years of capacity. The numbers you are citing (I have seen them before) assume no population growth (a very ignorant position).
The better question is, have you done any independent research on your own, or do you simply accept what the news media tells you? I suggest you read the book ... "The Energy Non-Crisis" by Lindsey Williams, which covers his personal experience working on the Alaska pipeline and the discovery by Atlantic Richfield of a huge oil reserve. The excitement of this find (1970's) was so great, they believed they had just made the USA energy independent for the next 200 years. Then, they were TOLD that it never happened and the information was classified under national security. Since that time, not a drop of oil has been taken from that one pool, and a couple more have also been found of comparably large size. The bottom line is that we (USA) have more oil than the entire Middle East.
Of course, those in the Oil Business (or Diamond business, or gold business or any other natural resource) are not going to announce "Hey, we found this HUGE deposit of diamonds 10 times larger than anything found so far, and now we have more diamonds than we know what to do with", only to cause the price of diamonds to drop like a rock. This is pure common sense. Does this even cause a flicker in the light bulb?
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Originally Posted by hnsq
Please post your sources that show that the US has found fields which 'dwarf Saudi Arabia'. That is laughable, at best. I am going based on facts, not conspiracy theories.
Always the same line with you guys .... if the Talking Heads in CNN or FOX or MSNBC don't blabber about it endlessly, it didn't happen .. it's all a conspiracy theory.
Here's a brief snipit from the Denver News about a more recent find that is even larger than the one I mentioned in Alaska in the 1970's ... they don't say much about the size of it other than the initial barrel volume:
"Colorado energy community buzzing after it came in at 1,770 barrels of oil in 24 hours -- far eclipsing the normal 100-150 barrels of oil a day"
Now here are the details that the general media is strangely silent and not talking about: (apparently this isn't big news like Janet Jackson's wardrobe malfunctions)
Five months ago, the U.S. Energy Department announced the results of a land survey...
It was conducted to determine the official amount of oil a thousand feet deep in the Rocky Mountains...
They reported this stunning news:
We have more oil inside our borders, than all the other proven reserves on earth.
Here are the official estimates: * 8-times as much oil as Saudi Arabia
* 18-times as much oil as Iraq
* 21-times as much oil as Kuwait
* 22-times as much oil as Iran
* 500-times as much oil as Yemen
...And it's all right here in the Western United States.
James Bartis, lead researcher with the study says, "We've got more oil in this very compact area than the entire Middle East."
More than 2 TRILLION barrels. Untapped.
"That's more than all the proven oil reserves of crude oil in the world today," reports The Denver Post.
When asked about America's least-publicized oil supply, Utah Senator Orrin Hatch said: "The amounts of oil are staggering. Who would have guessed that in just Colorado and Utah, there is more recoverable oil than in the Middle East?"
So, like I said .... we've got PLENTY of oil ... more than we could possibly use for the next 100+ years (some suggest 200 years based on projected rates of increased usage and NOT just current usage levels).
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Originally Posted by hnsq
Unlike you, I don't equate living closer to a city with a lack of wealth. Cars are more of a burden to families than a benefit in my opinion.
I have made no such claim or even insinuation. Wealth has nothing to do with city or rural living choices .... but common sense, and proper world perspective can be another matter. You speak in terms of what is best for everyone .... "Cars are more of a burden to families than a benefit" being a great example of this attitude that ""my way is the best way" that so typifies the shortsighted liberal mindset. Do you have any idea of how arrogantly obnoxious such an attitude is? The reality is, most families would strenuously disagree with you, but they are just wrong, and you know what's best.
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Originally Posted by hnsq
Your opinion is the dangerous one. You are so set in your ways that you flat out refuse to even try to think of something that is different than how you have lived for the last 30 years. Shame on you.
I live in a city. My entire lot is 900 sqft. I have a dog, and guess what? He does just great! I walk two blocks to a park and let my dog run around, and I get to meet my neighbors, talk and be social in the process. We do not have an unalienable right to a backyard with a white picket fence. That is a distinctly oil-driven, Americanized phenomenon.
Really ... you mean, prior to the discovery of OIL ... nobody had backyards and fences? How can you expect to be taken seriously when you make such absurd statements? And, the "unalienable rights" as envisioned by men way wiser than you involve the right to "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", which can mean quite different things to different people. What makes you happy doesn't mean that's what should make everyone else happy.
You and your dog and your 900 Sq ft works for you. That's great. Good for you. That doesn't mean that everyone could or should be so confined and restricted. Who the hell are you to tell a family that they don't need their car ... or a backyard for their kids to play in ... or a plot to grow a garden, or acreage to raise horses, or anything else? Who died and left you in charge of the world?
I swear ... this is the attitude that poses the greatest danger to everyone's freedom and rights ... a mindset that personifies every dictator in history ..."I know what's best for everyone, and that's how it will be".
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Originally Posted by hnsq
No one DOES need small farmers. They are a romantic notion, like a horse drawn carriage. They were useful once, but we have moved beyond that.
And don't be foolish. I personally grow enough veggies on my balcony to sustain most of what I eat. Do a search for 'urban farming'. You don't need acres and acres to grow food for your own home. It is also hard to take someone seriously who uses the term 'cockroach genes' and tomatoes in the same sentence.
We have moved beyond that? Who's the "we" you refer to? You are seriously deluding yourself about the world. And you need to become better informed about the real one before you start instructing everyone else about how to live. The Tomato - Cockroach remark was a euphemism for genetically modified agriculture that uses all sorts of strange and unpleasant combinations such as spider genes, cockroach genes .... and there are corn strains that have been mixed with cockroach genes (I'm not sure about tomatoes). Best you refrain from being insulting unless you actually know what you are talking about.
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Originally Posted by hnsq
So you think a person's worth is tied to the stuff they have? How unbelievably sad. I think it is incredibly depressing that people live alone in the suburbs or country. They go to their house, have their yard, their stuff, but no one else. Urban living allows people to interact more, be social, get to know people, you know...the things that make humans into a civilization rather than just a collection of individuals.
Never said that either. Depressing for whom? You? Look, some people like urban living, and others like rural and country living. Each have benefits and drawbacks, depending on personal preference .. and often, age plays a role (You sound very young, BTW). Young people tend to want to be in the city where there is more entertainment ... more action. That's great. Some older folks have already done that and have all of the tee shirts. They might prefer a more quiet lifestyle in the country, but that's just not OKAY with you.
So ... according to you ... who gets to raise horses ?(this will be necessary since you advocate going back to pre-industrial world free of automobiles). Can one do that on an apartment balcony? Who get's to to do all of those things that used to be done by the country folks .... growing the food, tending the farm animals .... growing the hay ... milking the cows ... the executives at Monsanto?
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Originally Posted by hnsq
If you define your self-worth by how much land you have, or how big your house is (which it seems like you do), then there are bigger issues at hand than farming and energy.
I live in a very nice apartment with a huge deck that backs to a preserve, and appears to be deep in the country, but is only 6 miles from downtown Austin. We even have parrots in the trees out back ... deer ... wild turkeys ... tons of wildlife and even the occasional scorpion found inside (not a favorite benefit). It suffices for our needs, but we'd love to have a private home in the country at some point ... even if such selfish desires, according to you, threatens all of humanity.
The reality is ... outside of that 900 sq ft spot you occupy, there is a grand world out there .... here in Texas, you can drive for hours and not see a dwelling of any sort. Contrary to how it is in most metro areas, just 20 minutes outside of downtown there are horse ranches, cattle ranches ... farms that have been in existence for generations.
I'll let them know about your decision to move them all to an apartment in downtown Austin.
Nice spokesmen, but sales taxes are paid by the purchaser. Just because Exxon collects that money from the consumer does mean they paid it. By you logic, Exxon should be claiming any taxes their vendors are paying to do business with Exxon. just because the money was in their hands does make it a payment by them.]
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Originally Posted by Roadking2003
Sorry to disappoint you but ALL corporate taxes are paid for by consumers. Sales taxes are just more visible.
I live in a city. My entire lot is 900 sqft. I have a dog, and guess what? He does just great! I walk two blocks to a park and let my dog run around, and I get to meet my neighbors, talk and be social in the process. We do not have an unalienable right to a backyard with a white picket fence. That is a distinctly oil-driven, Americanized phenomenon.
.
What's wrong with having a large backyard, large house, multiple big engine cars and being "distinctly oil-driven?"
Sounds good to me if that's what you choose.
That's the nice thing about this country. You may choose to live in a 900 sq ft house with no car. Someone else may choose to live in a 6000 sq ft house with three cars.
Nice spokesmen, but sales taxes are paid by the purchaser. Just because Exxon collects that money from the consumer does mean they paid it.
Sales taxes are just like ALL other corporate taxes. Sales taxes are no different than income taxes or property taxes that are paid by businesses. In the end, the consumer pays for ALL corporate taxes.
THE MESSAGE OF THE GEORGIA GUIDESTONES
1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.
2. Guide reproduction wisely - improving fitness and diversity.
3. Unite humanity with a living new language.
4. Rule passion - faith - tradition - and all things with tempered reason.
5. Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts.
6. Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court.
7. Avoid petty laws and useless officials.
8. Balance personal rights with social duties.
9. Prize truth - beauty - love - seeking harmony with the infinite.
10.Be not a cancer on the earth - Leave room for nature - Leave room for nature.
Blasphemy to the radical right. I'm surprised the are not legislating to tear it down.
Have you read "The Celestine Prophecy"?
Had to add this...
The fact that most Americans have never heard of the Georgia Guidestones or their message to humanity reflects the degree of control that exists today over what the American people think. We ignore that message at our peril.
It's funny you should mention the celestial prophecy here what made you mention it? The Georgia guidestones immediately came to mind when I was reading the book when the ninth insight is revealed 'the manuscript predicts that we humans will voluntarily decrease our population so that we all may live in the most powerful and beautiful places on the planet'. This is the only page on the Internet I could find where the two are linked tho
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And since there will be no backyards in your "brave new world" ... no backyard gardens ... who likes those homegrown tomatos anyway when you can have the hi-tech tomato gene spliced with cockroach genes from the laboratory ... yum yum.
