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1) Is it legitimate for a democratic nation to use torture as an interrogation technique?
a) Let's remember that torture violates international agreements that the U.S. is a signatory.
b) The U.S. has prosecuted other country's officers for using torture.
c) If it's legitimate for the U.S. to use torture, it's also it legitimate for our enemies to use torture.
d) The U.S. has prosecuted its own officers for using torture.
2) Is torture effective?
a) If I threaten to pour boiling water on a prisoner's testicles, they will say anything I want. What they say may not be true, however.
b) Those in the intelligence community have low regard for information obtained through torture. They feel it is unreliable.
c) In this particular case (bin Laden), the reports stated that the name of the courier was not obtained via torture.
I think it is immoral for the U.S. to advocate torture. The Nazis were a far more dangerous threat 70 years ago than anything we face today. Yet, we did not torture German prisoners.
We used to set ourselves on the moral high-ground by only accusing the other side of using torture. It represents how much the hard-right has gone down the rabbit hole, morally. Conservatives used to believe that torturing prisoners was only what the Communists did. It's repugnant that we are even debating the merits of torture.
Some key information was gathered from the interrogations while Bush was President, but the village idiot didn't know what to do with the information. It took someone like President Obama to define the PRECISION required to complete this task. Bush was running in circles chasing his tail.
Recap:
Bush. Drops a trillion dollars to nation-build in Iraq and Afghanistan without the slightest chance of getting bin Laden. Failure by Bush and this is a direct reflection on the flawed political judgment and instincts of Republicans. They had intel, but were clueless.
Obama. Must clean up Bush's collosal mess, while zeroing in on bin Laden. Successful on both accounts. Obama's presidency thus far is a resounding success. He has accomplished more in three years than both Bushes and Reagan combined. Credit to the Dems for superior political judgment and instincts.
OMG really? How's the gitmo closing working out for you? I guess now that all the troops are out of Iraq and Afghanistan they're relaxing at home and driving on their long vacations now that gas is so cheap. Oh wait, they actually went to Europe and Canada because now that the dollar is so strong it's much cheaper.
And now that the troops are home they'll have no problem finding a job and getting on with their lives now that unemployment is well below 9%...
Oh, before I get slammed for being a neo-somthing or other or a right wing whatever I guess I better add that I'm no fan of Bush though he did do a few things right and I'm no fan of Obama either though he did a few things right. Obviously the current condition of our nation is beyond the ability of our current leadership, we chose poorly last election and it's now time to rectify that error.
OMG really? How's the gitmo closing working out for you? I guess now that all the troops are out of Iraq and Afghanistan they're relaxing at home and driving on their long vacations now that gas is so cheap. Oh wait, they actually went to Europe and Canada because now that the dollar is so strong it's much cheaper.
And now that the troops are home they'll have no problem finding a job and getting on with their lives now that unemployment is well below 9%...
At the end of the day I was very comfortable with the idea that our president, our military, and our CIA ect didn't have to sanction the torture of some lunatic fanatic who meant to do us harm..
That was the job of an unsung hero who put his own career and life in jeapordy to get the job done and to protect this country..
That was the way it has worked for many years until you libs started whinning and crying about other peoples rights... Not American citizens... oh know... but known terrorists, muderers, and rapists who would just assume cut the head off your own child..
You can't air the picture of OBL becasue you might offend the muslim world!
But your all for running the photo's of some "young and dumb" service men and women who were doing nothing but Hazing some prisoners... All in an effort to tear down our military and make our country look evil..
Why would a president have to have ESP?
We liberals started "whining" about waterboarding when Bush dreamed up the Patriot Act and started hauling American citizens away in the middle of the night without due process of the law. Things like "enhanced interrogation techniques" takes on a whole new look when an unconstitutional law is in place that, in the wrong hands, could turn this country into a police state. My biggest disappointment in Obama is that he didn't completely abolish it when he took office.
We liberals started "whining" about waterboarding when Bush dreamed up the Patriot Act and started hauling American citizens away in the middle of the night without due process of the law. Things like "enhanced interrogation techniques" takes on a whole new look when an unconstitutional law is in place that, in the wrong hands, could turn this country into a police state. My biggest disappointment in Obama is that he didn't completely abolish it when he took office.
But in the right hands it finds a mass murderer! The question that has to be answered is how/why do you apply "our" moral beliefs to a group that has no moral problem with killing millions and even killing their own innocents in order to reach their religious goals? You have to remember when you hesitate to show mercy they will take that hesitation and chop your head off.
The question one has to ask oneself is "does it make you a better person holding to your "moral superiority" when they bury you or your family when it could have been avoided by a bit of water?"
You're/they're still dead, moral or not right?
Democrats just cannot give credit to Bush and his policies. They will cheer on Obama for this victory, and rightly so, but will continue to refuse to give equal credit to the intel that went into the success of this mission.
As far as I'm concerned, I don't care who gets credit. I'm just happy that OBL was eliminated. This was a victory for America, not one side at the expense of the other.
With 0bama and Holder controlling the reins of power, we don't even interrogate terrorists any more, we conduct interviews with them, with their taxpayer funded ACLU lawyers at their side. this is why 0bama stepped up predator drone attacks on suspected terrorists, because they have no value to us if we actually caught one alive.
As opposed to the Hollywood version of torturing someone to give snippets of information between screams of pain and anguish. We used waterboarding on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Zubaydah and Nashiri, to got them all to cooperate with us. Once they were cooperating we had normal conversations with them, and they told us all we needed to know. These three terrorists would not have cooperated with us if we used the milk and cookies tactics of Holder and 0bama, and they know it.
At the end of the day I was very comfortable with the idea that our president, our military, and our CIA ect didn't have to sanction the torture of some lunatic fanatic who meant to do us harm..
That was the job of an unsung hero who put his own career and life in jeapordy to get the job done and to protect this country..
That was the way it has worked for many years until you libs started whinning and crying about other peoples rights... Not American citizens... oh know... but known terrorists, muderers, and rapists who would just assume cut the head off your own child..
You can't air the picture of OBL becasue you might offend the muslim world!
But your all for running the photo's of some "young and dumb" service men and women who were doing nothing but Hazing some prisoners... All in an effort to tear down our military and make our country look evil..
Why would a president have to have ESP?
Ahh, evidence of FOX correctly assessing their audience?
But in the right hands it finds a mass murderer! The question that has to be answered is how/why do you apply "our" moral beliefs to a group that has no moral problem with killing millions and even killing their own innocents in order to reach their religious goals? You have to remember when you hesitate to show mercy they will take that hesitation and chop your head off.
The question one has to ask oneself is "does it make you a better person holding to your "moral superiority" when they bury you or your family when it could have been avoided by a bit of water?"
You're/they're still dead, moral or not right?
If a pedestrian in times Square were to inadvertently stumble upon some foreign terrorists setting up a dirty nuke, and the Holder DoJ took them all into custody, what would we do if they all claimed their new right to remain silent? Threaten them with jail time?
Even if these men laughed in Holder's face and said twenty more similar dirty bombs and other attacks were being set up throughout the US, and were going to be carried out on July 4th, holder would just offer cookies and milk. Then, on July 4th, 2011, when three million Americans die, we can at least hold our heads high, and claim "well at least we did not stoop to playing loud music or water boarding the terrorist ring leaders".
But in the right hands it finds a mass murderer! The question that has to be answered is how/why do you apply "our" moral beliefs to a group that has no moral problem with killing millions and even killing their own innocents in order to reach their religious goals?
Why? Because that's what separates civilized human beings from barbarians. If in order to protect our beliefs and our American philosophies we need to become the barbarians, the barbarians have won.
As Chief Justice Earl Warren, said: "It would indeed be ironic if, in the name of national defense, we would sanction the subversion of one of those liberties…which makes the defense of the nation worthwhile."
or;
ask Captain Kirk said:
"these words they must apply to everyone or they mean nothing"
Just listened to Bill O'Tidely on FOX explain that there ought to be a Law that a Pres has the authority to authorize torture methods of interrogation when there are plots to kill thousands of people so that we can find out about plots to kill thousands of people??? Errr, I guess we will have to start electing Presidents that have ESP. FOX really believes their viewers are dumb, could be they are correct.
Where you in a hurry to catch the bus or something, when you typed this out?
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How's the gitmo closing working out for you? I guess now that all the troops are out of Iraq and Afghanistan they're relaxing at home and driving on their long vacations now that gas is so cheap. Oh wait, they actually went to Europe and Canada because now that the dollar is so strong it's much cheaper. 
