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yup; feminism is a form of bigotry and supremacy, and that makes it unattractive. It rests upon the assumption that women are oppressed by men, and this just ain't true.
why would a man want a partner who treated him like the enemy?
It is impossible for me to say very much here and stay within the TOS. So I won't be responding to the attitudes that a thread like this always sucks out of the woodwork.
There is almost no aspect of our national decline that is not directly or indirectly linked to feminism. So thank you once again for speaking up despite knowing how high the cards are stacked against the truth.
I understand your point ... but maybe that is just a bit overstating the culpability of feminists a bit. Feminism was and is one element of a greater agenda ... which has many facets to it.
And there are many facets to feminism as well ... some of which are quite legitimate, while others are a complete fraud an a disastrously harmful result of social engineering manipulation.
If one examines closely all of the "special interest" movements, you see that a lot of funding comes from some very unlikely and dubious sources ... with the intent of creating division .... racial division ... gender division ... sexual orientation division .... or more simply, divide and conquer ... an ageless tactic that's been around long before they dreamed up "feminism" as another tool for that.
With that said, I am not attempting to understate the negative impact feminism has had on our societal structure. It most certainly has provided a net negative .... particularly in the hostility in encourages between the genders, and the impact to children.
I for one, love the female gender .. and believe that a world without women would be a world not worth preserving. More succinctly, I don't believe the world could survive very long without them (aside from the procreation aspects) ... women have historically provided the moral anchor to which civilized society could not exist without. The compromising of that necessary component is no doubt appearing in the breakdown we see today ... the alarming prevalence of the lack of integrity ... honesty ... compassion ... empathy is undeniable and quite visible.
The human race has a genetic structure that compels the young to seek the guidance of their Mothers, and their protection from their Fathers. That guidance, particularly in the formative years will determine what type of character that child possesses when they reach adulthood ... and the results we are seeing today indicates a BIG problem.
Show me the most well adjusted, right minded adult of impeccable character, and more often than not, those qualities will have come from their mother more so than the father.
Feminism at it's core is a rejection of that duty and obligation, and whatever short term gains might be realized by adopting that philosophy will be paid for, with interest .. later down the line.
I understand your point ... but maybe that is just a bit overstating the culpability of feminists a bit. Feminism was and is one element of a greater agenda ... which has many facets to it.
And there are many facets to feminism as well ... some of which are quite legitimate, while others are a complete fraud an a disastrously harmful result of social engineering manipulation.
If one examines closely all of the "special interest" movements, you see that a lot of funding comes from some very unlikely and dubious sources ... with the intent of creating division .... racial division ... gender division ... sexual orientation division .... or more simply, divide and conquer ... an ageless tactic that's been around long before they dreamed up "feminism" as another tool for that.
With that said, I am not attempting to understate the negative impact feminism has had on our societal structure. It most certainly has provided a net negative .... particularly in the hostility in encourages between the genders, and the impact to children.
I for one, love the female gender .. and believe that a world without women would be a world not worth preserving. More succinctly, I don't believe the world could survive very long without them (aside from the procreation aspects) ... women have historically provided the moral anchor to which civilized society could not exist without. The compromising of that necessary component is no doubt appearing in the breakdown we see today ... the alarming prevalence of the lack of integrity ... honesty ... compassion ... empathy is undeniable and quite visible.
The human race has a genetic structure that compels the young to seek the guidance of their Mothers, and their protection from their Fathers. That guidance, particularly in the formative years will determine what type of character that child possesses when they reach adulthood ... and the results we are seeing today indicates a BIG problem.
Show me the most well adjusted, right minded adult of impeccable character, and more often than not, those qualities will have come from their mother more so than the father.
Feminism at it's core is a rejection of that duty and obligation, and whatever short term gains might be realized by adopting that philosophy will be paid for, with interest .. later down the line.
The bolded is what throws me off a bit. I understand where you're coming from (even though I vehemently disagree), but feminism at it's core is NOT a rejection of the 'duty and obligation' to raise children. Feminism at it's core is about allowing a woman to make her own decisions regarding her life, when and if she reproduces and basically to take charge of her own person... even if society still frowns upon it.
As 'equal' as things may appear on paper, women are still treated as inferior in many aspects. I worked as an auto mechanic for many years and you wouldn't BELIEVE the name calling, the fact that I got less pay for MORE work and the harassment all because I wanted to do something that was 'mans work'. Luckily now I work with real men who appreciate me and don't mind that I'm working on the floor with them. That is the stuff I'm fighting for... to teach young women that it's okay to do things that are outside societal gender roles. I still do a clinic 2 or 3 times a year at 2 local high schools to teach girls (and boys, if they choose) how to do basic car maintenance. They don't feel comfortable taking shop class and I don't blame them, learning from a fellow woman can make things a bit easier. They definitely aren't afraid to ask questions as they would be with a man.
So that's my version of being a feminist. Damn your definitions, damn your 'history' and damn whatever 'radical' feminists do and think. Each woman is different and each woman is going to come about feminism in their own personal way.
I don't get it. Are you saying that I have a moral duty to give birth to and raise children? Instead of being single in my mid 30s and pursuing a master's degree I should heed the call of my place in an ordered society?
And I don't particularly like children (I don't hate them at all...I love my niece and nephew, but I don't want to live with one 24/7 either.) I guess that makes me akin to Satan.
I don't get it. Are you saying that I have a moral duty to give birth to and raise children? Instead of being single in my mid 30s and pursuing a master's degree I should heed the call of my place in an ordered society?
And I don't particularly like children (I don't hate them at all...I love my niece and nephew, but I don't want to live with one 24/7 either.) I guess that makes me akin to Satan.
Awesome.
I doubt feminism has anything to do with not liking children. There's good people who hate children. And there's real men who get vasectomies.
I doubt feminism has anything to do with anyone not wanting kids.
I was never raised in a pro or anti feminist household (we were too busy just trying to survive), but it seems to me at its core, perhaps feminism is a bad name for it...but at its core its about biology is not destiny...for either gender.
Men can and do stay home while women work in some households. Even growing up...my Dad worked at his own business and if a venture failed, he would stay home...keep things clean, take care of household duties and my mom worked. And vice versa...it wasn't ever a big deal. We were a family and we carried each others burdens.
The bolded is what throws me off a bit. I understand where you're coming from (even though I vehemently disagree), but feminism at it's core is NOT a rejection of the 'duty and obligation' to raise children. Feminism at it's core is about allowing a woman to make her own decisions regarding her life, when and if she reproduces and basically to take charge of her own person... even if society still frowns upon it.
You understand where I'm coming from because deep down, subconsciously you know it rings true. Consciously, you vehemently disagree because your ideological position on the matter demands that.
Yet you can rephrase the language, but the message is the same ... your desires ... your fulfillment ... your needs outweigh any other concerns ... in other words, preoccupation with self interests at the expense of all else. And as I stated already .. such a philosophy in life is always self defeating ... and a society that is comprised of a group of individuals who's primary focus is that of themselves, is not a very safe or pleasant environment for anyone, including one's self. So that brings us right back to the rejection of the duty and obligations to society, doesn't it?
The choice to or not to reproduce as you so refer (veiled promotion of abortion) as being an individual decision ignores the reality that society does have a vested interest, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. I submit to you that if every female in the United States, for the next 25 years universally chose to have an abortion ... our society would collapse completely. If that were adopted worldwide for an extended period, the result could be species extinction .... so don't give me this baloney about "my body my choice" ... as if this is only about you. It is not. You are promoting a philosophy that if universally adopted (and this universal acceptance is a goal of feminism), could result in species extinction, but, selfishly, you view society's rejection of that as a personal affront, rather than what it actually is ... society expressing it's self interests ... a right you have convinced yourself that only you possess as an individual, and society be damned. But as a member of society ... as society goes, so to do you.
You have a choice not to become pregnant, that is your choice, because at this stage of the game, we all know that the stork plays no role in the matter. And if the human species is to remain viable, reproduction is a necessary thing ... which comes full circle back to what I stated before ... selfishness is self destructive ..... this isn't recognized by the selfish ... because selfishness considers only self.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetJockey
As 'equal' as things may appear on paper, women are still treated as inferior in many aspects. I worked as an auto mechanic for many years and you wouldn't BELIEVE the name calling, the fact that I got less pay for MORE work and the harassment all because I wanted to do something that was 'mans work'. Luckily now I work with real men who appreciate me and don't mind that I'm working on the floor with them. That is the stuff I'm fighting for... to teach young women that it's okay to do things that are outside societal gender roles. I still do a clinic 2 or 3 times a year at 2 local high schools to teach girls (and boys, if they choose) how to do basic car maintenance. They don't feel comfortable taking shop class and I don't blame them, learning from a fellow woman can make things a bit easier. They definitely aren't afraid to ask questions as they would be with a man.
So that's my version of being a feminist. Damn your definitions, damn your 'history' and damn whatever 'radical' feminists do and think. Each woman is different and each woman is going to come about feminism in their own personal way.
Life isn't always fair ... in fact, it almost always isn't. But your recount of the workplace suggests that one situation was hostile, while another place wasn't. This would tend to dismiss the notion that MOST men are these women hating oafs as has been insinuated by most feminists here. And I dare say that most men could also offer their own experiences of unfairness in the workplace ... denied promotions, and passed over for less competent but better "connected". I know it has happened to me in the past. When this sort of thing happens to a woman or a minority, the automatic conclusion is gender or racial discrimination ... and though that might be the motive in some cases ... just as likely, it happens for the same reason that it happens to the average white male ... the good ole boy network ... nepotism ... and other such things are as common as a sunny day ... and many people of all racial and gender makeup experience unfairness. You have no exclusive corner on that market.
I'll sum up with another analogy regarding selfishness versus selflessness. Take the cave man who bravely faces down and fights off a wild animal with his spear .. saving the lives of his mate and children. He continues on, enjoying the company of his mate, and his children grow up to take care of him when he is less able. Now, let's take the selfish coward who is only concerned with his own personal survival ... he runs and hides, leaving his mate and children to the ravages of that wild beast. Yes, he's safe ... but he has no mate to care for him .. and no companion. He has no children to care for him when he is less able ... and he lives out what days he has left alone, and lonely.
Selfishness is a self inflicted condition resulting in solitary confinement, with no purpose other than to exist .... while selflessness fills one with purpose, and a reason for living.
I don't get it. Are you saying that I have a moral duty to give birth to and raise children? Instead of being single in my mid 30s and pursuing a master's degree I should heed the call of my place in an ordered society?
And I don't particularly like children (I don't hate them at all...I love my niece and nephew, but I don't want to live with one 24/7 either.) I guess that makes me akin to Satan.
Awesome.
I'm assuming this was directed to me .. so I'll respond accordingly.
No, this doesn't make you satan ... and I don't believe everyone is cut out to be parents, nor is raising children an obligation placed upon you for being born a female.
But if I were you, I'd be glad your parents didn't hold the same views you apparently hold .... know what I mean, jelly bean?
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