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hah, I can see how living in an androgynous place like New York City, that it is difficult to grasp that men and women are different. I was thinking the other day that Anthony Bourdain looks and acts like Rachel Maddow in a grey wig.
I'm happy to be living in the most diverse city in the country, full of real men and real women. (Real meaning, they conform to their own ideas of masculinity/femininity and not yours).
Could you tell me where you live so that I can avoid going there? I'm not really interested in catching whatever it is you have that's made your level of thought so basic.
I'm happy to be living in the most diverse city in the country, full of real men and real women. (Real meaning, they conform to their own ideas of masculinity/femininity and not yours).
Really? looks to me like y'all are androgynous sheep who all adopt nontraditional gender roles en masse, and try and shame those who don't.
Well, I stand by both statements. My correction was to make it more relevant to the argument that had been presented to me, since no one advocated a quota system, y'all were talking about this mythical concept of "equal work."
Sure, just like I support employers who want to pay the individual with the vagina more than they pay the individual with the penis. It all depends on what the enterprise is, what the work is being done, and the work habits, discipline, lifestyle, education, competence, and goals of the individuals I'd be employing.
These little bits of our anatomy are key factors in horomone production, and brain development. This in turn affects much of our behavior, how we act, how we look, and the really important thing -- our motivations.
Equal work does exist.
You give fifth-graders a set of math problems. If a girl and a boy both finish all the math problems in the same amount of time, and all the math problems are answered correctly, then that's equal work product.
If you have two computer programmers, one a woman and one a man, and they are equally competent, why should the man be paid more than the woman?
Get off it, people. The military is the one who won't let women register for the draft and go into combat. There are many female soldiers who want to fight for their country on the front lines and can't. I'm all for it.
You give fifth-graders a set of math problems. If a girl and a boy both finish all the math problems in the same amount of time, and all the math problems are answered correctly, then that's equal work product.
If you have two computer programmers, one a woman and one a man, and they are equally competent, why should the man be paid more than the woman?
But but but but but he has a penis? Uh, longer genitalia, "longer" salary? Makes sense?
Really? looks to me like y'all are androgynous sheep who all adopt nontraditional gender roles en masse, and try and shame those who don't.
That's not true. While there are some feminists who reject non-traditional gender roles, and who deride those women who choose traditional roles, they are generally considered radical feminists. Just like there are radical Christians going around right now telling people that the world is going to end on May 21st at 6pm local time, radical Christians don't speak for all Christians, and radical feminists don't speak for all feminists. Feminism is about expanding choices, not removing choices. Women who make the choice to be housewives, to devote themselves to their children are making every bit as valid a choice as a woman who chooses a career outside the home. And feminism recognizes that men who choose to stay at home, to keep the house, to care for children, are also making a valid choice. Feminism isn't about limits, it's not about pigeon-holing people into traditional roles. Feminism says each of us is an individual, with our own special gifts, talents, abiltities, and that each of us is able to make our own choices, without regard to gender.
You give fifth-graders a set of math problems. If a girl and a boy both finish all the math problems in the same amount of time, and all the math problems are answered correctly, then that's equal work product.
"Equal work product", as you define it here, is only one aspect of an employee's long-term value to the organization.
If worker X costs more than worker Y on the insurance plan, that's a valid reason not to hire them.
If worker Y doesn't get along with the other workers, that's a valid reason not to hire them.
If worker X plans to have kids, and kid-having is catastrophic to the employee's value to the organization, then worker X ought not be hired.
If worker Y has a rough and intimidating disposition and worker X has a nurturing disposition, then worker X may offer more value to the employer than worker Y, despite similar work being done.
If worker X is clearly invested in the long-term, while worker Y is going to pack up and leave at any moment, then worker X may offer more value to the employer.
Sometimes these "X" and "Y"'s will distribute themselves statistically along gender lines, due to the aforementioned fact that men and women are biologically different. It's not my place, or your place, or anyone's, to dictate to the employer that men and/or women are equally valuable to the organization, whether they "Do the same work" by your limited measurements, or not.
I may be asking too much of feminists -- who are typically liberals -- to understand free labor markets.
Quote:
If you have two computer programmers, one a woman and one a man, and they are equally competent, why should the man be paid more than the woman?
I didn't say the man should be paid more than the woman.
You can't convince me that you've ever been to New York City, so don't bother trying.
I won't; it wasn't a particularly pleasurable experience.
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