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View Poll Results: Should there be created the independent state of Palestine?
Yes, they deserve to have their own country 82 71.93%
No, this land belongs to Israel 32 28.07%
Voters: 114. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-11-2011, 12:16 PM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,298 posts, read 54,147,563 times
Reputation: 40621

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterpetron View Post
And what would you suggest, in your vast experience and knowledge on international affairs and the history of the middle east , that germany do EXACTLY?

Should they roll the german army in and kill everyone? Come up with something rational and thoughtful, if you are able to. Propose something.
Why don't you propose something besides your whining?

As I've said, IF, as many claim, the holocaust grants Israel the 'right' to exist, let the creators of that right defend it, otherwise stop with the cries that the holocaust justifies anything.

My only interest is in seeing the US stop wasting time & $$$ attempting to bring peace to those who clearly don't want it.
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Old 05-11-2011, 12:21 PM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,298 posts, read 54,147,563 times
Reputation: 40621
Quote:
Originally Posted by sterpetron View Post
Uh oh, the teenage temper tantrum...

Since you have absolutely no clue whatsoever about the jewish religion, and even less about the middle east, I think I'll just pass on your posts moving forward.

For the rational, the jewish religion has contained a fundamental attachment to the nation and land of israel for some 6,000 years...

Judaism 101: The Land of Israel
You're the one with the juvenile responses when you have NO reasonable answer to a question. IF this alleged "fundamental attachment to the nation and land of israel" actually exists, WHY were Jews scattered all around as you've said rather than fighting for that land they're allegedly attached to?
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Old 05-11-2011, 12:24 PM
 
57,022 posts, read 35,072,402 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
I agree with this.
There is more than enough modern era reasoning to justify the political choices and all the peripheral without invoking the words of ancient texts.

But it doesn't hurt to have them too.



Now this is another matter.
In that same modern era context, say starting with 1850 before the modern Zionist movement even began and then going forward from then, there is still more than enough evidence to support those other assertions.

The mixing up of ancient/biblical era events and rationales is a more gross example of mixing up 1990 era events and rationales with those from other decades like say the 1920's. All are equally wrong.
---

If you're interested in a deeper understanding I'll suggest that you take a more historical approach and start at one fixed, even arbitrary, point by learning what the conditions were at that time and THEN... layering the subsequent events and circumstances on top of that knowledge.

1914 and the start of WW1 (imho) would probably be the best date.
Ancient texts (aka religous books) = meaningless in 2011 IMO.

Besides, i've already read a bunch of books on this topic, and i think my understanding is deep enough.

Again, i have nothing against the modern day state of Israel and i support their right to exist. But i absolutely WILL NOT accept any notion that the Arabs should come out of this process as complete losers with no nation of their own.
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Old 05-11-2011, 12:25 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,970 posts, read 24,644,548 times
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I voted yes, but I would prefer a common Palestisrael Within it there could be various provinces, regional capitals etc.
After several decades of that mess down there, I don't see any way to have two separate states without anyone being treated unfairly, thus there should only be one.
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Old 05-11-2011, 01:04 PM
 
Location: The Triad
34,090 posts, read 82,648,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
But i absolutely WILL NOT accept any notion that...
you keep moving the goal posts
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Old 05-11-2011, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Wherever women are
19,012 posts, read 29,649,046 times
Reputation: 11309
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
Wow. I am in TOTAL SHOCK at the votes. 45% of people think Palestine should be their own country?! Do any of you dipsticks have any idea what God will do to us if we end up making it happen in reality?! God will split the U.S. into two just like Israel!! I've read more than 20 different prophetic visions and dreams from various people who said they saw the U.S. being split apart right in the middle from a major earthquake!! If Palestine gets split from Israel, the New Madrid fault line WILL go off and will split the U.S. in half and DESTROY the mid-west!!
Somebody tell me this is not a serious post. Or else, I'd need to take some meds or seek therapy with a well-endowed, hot therapist who will caress me in her bosom

Wait, I'll take the second one. No meds.
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Old 05-11-2011, 01:14 PM
 
48,505 posts, read 96,623,272 times
Reputation: 18304
In reality the y will never et a independent sate as long as they insiston and support the radical muslim in calling for the destruction of israel. But then again their corrupt leaders do not want peace as it will be the end of their power .
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Old 05-11-2011, 01:28 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,970 posts, read 24,644,548 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
In reality the y will never et a independent sate as long as they insiston and support the radical muslim in calling for the destruction of israel. But then again their corrupt leaders do not want peace as it will be the end of their power .
Israel is quite happy about and dependent on those radicals, it would have a real problem if they just went away.
The current limbo situation is very beneficial to Israel, the longer it lasts, the more settlements they can build on Palestinian land etc. Peace is the last thing Israel wants, but it is in the fortunate position that the Palestinians are portrayed as the bad ones in the biased media... This diverts attention from the real obstacles to a peaceful settlement.
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Old 05-11-2011, 01:33 PM
 
57,022 posts, read 35,072,402 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
you keep moving the goal posts
No i'm not. I'm quite consistent.

Besides, what does it matter anyway? This is only a discussion. Would i put my life on the line for Israel or the Palestinians? Nope. I'm just stating my position.

At the end of the day, i don't give a damn. But what i won't accept is some nonsense about the Bible, blah, blah, and the Palestinians are just meaningless people, blah, blah....
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Old 05-11-2011, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Wherever women are
19,012 posts, read 29,649,046 times
Reputation: 11309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
A breathtaking display of truly shocking ignorance.

Tell you what: present evidence of the gas ovens in which palestinians are incinerated. And the railcars carrying away families to concentration camps. And the SIX MILLION corpses, the bundles of hair, the rolls of human skin, the gold jewelry, teeth and other warehouses of personal and family goods stolen from helpless people at gunpoint.

Provide evidence of a jewish plan to exterminate the palestinians, references to a "final solution" to the "palestinian problem", or ANYTHING REMOTELY RESEMBLING the strategy of mass murder and genocide engaged in by the Nazis to rid the world of Jews. But you won't do any of this, because you can't. You're just blowing hot air out of your ass.
Slow down, brother, don't get all worked up now.

You know the soup is always the soup, but every chef has his own way of making soup. The Nazis built gas chambers and the Zionists built illegal settlements. The end result is the same - ethnic cleaning. Problem is nobody makes movies about Palestinian suffering in Hollywood, that doesn't mean they aren't suffering

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
Israel has bent over backwards to accomodate the palestinians. It has returned the Sinai to Egypt. It gave the pals Gaza and what did it get in return? An artillery base for Hamas. Surrounded by enemies, Israel has estalbished a working democracy and offers citizenship, voting rights, religous freedom, and legilslative representation to the Arabs living in Israel. Care to name how many arab countries even HAVE elections? And how many jews are allowed to live htere, vote there, hold office there? ZERO.

The Jordanians killed more palestinians in the Black September uprising than Israel has throughout its history.

Seriously, posts such as yours are bereft of any semblance of intelligence or even the barest knowledge of history. Why do you engage in such lies?
Well, I agree a lot of things about Israel's democracy, but let's get down to the basics.

Illegal immigration of Jews from Europe into Palestine displaced Palestinians who had lived there for generations. Period. Nothing can justify that, no matter how efficient Israeli democracy is. It's not a legit one in the first place.
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