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Old 05-13-2011, 06:45 AM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,462,379 times
Reputation: 12597

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Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
Only if the person CHOOSES to let those words have power...and that is TOTALLY their choice.

What we seem to have nowadays is a lot of people who need to put their big girl panties on and get over it.
Making everyone choose your way is selfish and an imposition though. You solely don't get to be the arbiter of all words. You have the right to make the choice about how you take how something is said, but so do other people. They have the right to be offended just as much as you have the right not to be.

Communication is about both people. We all have a right to speak about our intention, but once the person receives the message, how they understand it is completely in their domain now. You have the choice to pick whatever words you want, and that's what the freedom of speech is about. But you don't get to choose how other people feel about the words you use, and that is the part that many people who overuse the freedom of speech argument want too. But they are the only ones to get to say how they feel.

Have freedom of speech but don't complain when other people react to your words. The freedom is just as much theirs as it is yours.
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Old 05-13-2011, 07:04 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,870,208 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
Making everyone choose your way is selfish and an imposition though. You solely don't get to be the arbiter of all words. You have the right to make the choice about how you take how something is said, but so do other people. They have the right to be offended just as much as you have the right not to be.
Freedom is now selfish?
It is up to you to CHOOSE(freedom) to be offended or not,wanting others to modify their behavior to fit your standards or opinions is not freedom.

Feel free to be offended,that is your problem not mine,it is selfish of another person to want me to modify my speech to fit them.

As I do not CARE what others think,I am not offended....you are free(there is that word again) to not be offended.

Quote:
Communication is about both people. We all have a right to speak about our intention, but once the person receives the message, how they understand it is completely in their domain now. You have the choice to pick whatever words you want, and that's what the freedom of speech is about. But you don't get to choose how other people feel about the words you use, and that is the part that many people who overuse the freedom of speech argument want too. But they are the only ones to get to say how they feel.
Be offended,don't be offended,I don't really care either way.Your offense is your issue.
Feel like crying and stamping your feet?
Go for it,it will give me a good laugh.

Feel like physically assaulting someone because of words,expect the same back.

Quote:
Have freedom of speech but don't complain when other people react to your words. The freedom is just as much theirs as it is yours.
Who is complaining except those pussoirs with thin skin?
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Old 05-13-2011, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Reality
9,949 posts, read 8,852,274 times
Reputation: 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
Have freedom of speech but don't complain when other people react to your words. The freedom is just as much theirs as it is yours.
While that is true, we all have freedom of speech but none of us have freedom of physical attack/assault.
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Old 05-13-2011, 07:35 AM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,384,541 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by 70Ford View Post
There's only one Dad/man in my house.

I make the rules. The rules never change. You follow the rules, you don't get rewarded. You break the rules, you get punished.

Rewarding normal behavior is why we have an entitlement generation.
How horrible for others in your house to live with an insecure, controlling, petty tyrant.

Isn't freedom of speech great?
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Old 05-13-2011, 07:47 AM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,384,541 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyGem View Post
People don't have to be offensive just because they have an opinion.

You're not exercising free speech when you look like an A-hole.

What comes out of your mouth should be carefully thought through before it hits the air. Why would you want to intentionally be an offensive jerk? Are people really that selfish that they think voicing an opinion that may not be shared by a majority of people has to be given at any cost?

People have a right to look like an insufferable bigot if they want.

It doesn't make them right.

And it doesn't mean I don't have a right to counter back and comment on what someone may think.

Does being politically incorrect mean you have to be inconsiderate?
This would be a great post....if you didn't have a history of offensive bigoted posts about gay people.
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Old 05-13-2011, 08:23 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,493 posts, read 4,553,310 times
Reputation: 3026
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
Because identity and audience factor into all language usage, and the N word is no exception. Just like you don't talk to your boss and your dog the same. Your identity and the identity of the person you're talking to do factor into what language you can and can't use. Technically, you can use any language, but it will either cause offense or sound weird. Would you whistle your boss over? Would you ask your dog "would you like something to drink, sir" before giving him a bowl of water? Why is there a difference in the way you talk to your boss vs. your dog? The answer lies in the fact that your identity and the identity of the person you're speaking to vary from person to person. The relationship between you and the listener vary, and language reflects that.

Languages across the world prescribe different pronouns, phrases, and names depending on the amount of solidarity or distance between two speakers. Having the same background gives an added sense of solidarity--whether it's because you're coworkers, went to school together, grew up together, are of the same religion, or of the same race. Race isn't always a solidarity marker but it can be for many people. Likewise religion can be a solidarity marker but isn't always. For example, in the Kingdom Hall, Jehovah's Witnesses call each other "brother" and "sister". They refer to each other as brothers and sisters. Many other religious sects do this. It is to demonstrate the solidarity they feel in a shared belief and a shared experience.

Black people have a shared experience as black people in America. There are a great variety of experiences among blacks, but there is that one common thread of being black in America. When black people use the N word affectionately, they are referring to this solidarity, much like JW's use "brother"/"sister". Obviously that common thread of that experience doesn't exist between blacks and whites. But there are other ways to establish solidarity with people. For example, JW's of all races choose their JW identity over any other identity and refer to each other as brothers and sisters regardless of race or ethnicity. Some black people put their black identity before any other identity with other blacks, and therefore use the language that reflects that outlook. A lot of black people don't do that too, and those black people tend not to use the N word affectionately.

Language reflects solidarity and other social relationships as well. The field that studies that phenomenon is called sociolinguistics.

Sociolinguistics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The problem in my opinion has to do with government interfering in controlling speech becaus someone gets offended. How would some women react if I call my wife and daughters the "female dog" word affectionatelly? How many women would react to that? Actually, now many would even sue me if I call my wife at work in front of them? There was a guy that got sued by a workmate because he had a picture of his wife in biking from when they went to the beach and the guy got fired for sexaul harassment.

I do remember one instance in the Republic of Georgia another Soldier and I were going to get interviewed by an American reporter. Right before the interview my friend and peer simulated an interview. He started to answer my question with Mexican accent like I speak. The reporter scolded us and said that was offensive. The other Soldier turn to me and asked me if I was offended. I said no and she got mad and left.

People are getting to sensitive and get to offended for just about anything to the point of infringing on free speech. What to do? Get Big Brother in the middle of it and later we complain for Big Brother meddling in our lives too much, take care
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Old 05-13-2011, 10:12 AM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,462,379 times
Reputation: 12597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Backspace View Post
While that is true, we all have freedom of speech but none of us have freedom of physical attack/assault.
I agree. I am defending freedom of speech for ALL, not freedom of violence.
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Old 05-13-2011, 10:21 AM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,462,379 times
Reputation: 12597
Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
Freedom is now selfish?
It is up to you to CHOOSE(freedom) to be offended or not,wanting others to modify their behavior to fit your standards or opinions is not freedom.
No. Thinking your freedom is unlimited and that you can have freedom at the cost of other people's freedom is selfish. Your right to thrust your fist in the air ends where my nose begins. Everyone has freedom but for everyone to have freedom, that freedom ends for each person where each other person's freedom begins.

Quote:
Feel free to be offended,that is your problem not mine,it is selfish of another person to want me to modify my speech to fit them.
I'm not asking that you do. I am simply pointing out that expecting other people not to also express their freedom of speech is childish and selfish. Express your freedom, but realize others have that freedom too.

Quote:
As I do not CARE what others think,I am not offended....you are free(there is that word again) to not be offended.
I am sure there are some things you find offensive and I am sure that you would not want to have your feelings denied in those instances.

Quote:
Be offended,don't be offended,I don't really care either way.Your offense is your issue.
Feel like crying and stamping your feet?
Go for it,it will give me a good laugh.
Exactly. It goes both ways.

Quote:
Feel like physically assaulting someone because of words,expect the same back.
Nowhere did I ever defend the right to attack physically. I do not condone violence on any level or in any form.

Quote:
Who is complaining except those pussoirs with thin skin?
People who want to use offensive language without any sort of consequences are complaining. People like Dr. Laura Schlessinger come to mind. For example, if you're going to use the N word on radio, you're going to lose fans. Don't complain about it. Expecting to be able to get away with that and have nothing happen is expecting to have limited freedom at the cost of others' freedom. Say what you want but take responsibility for what you know you're getting yourself into.
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Old 05-13-2011, 10:26 AM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,462,379 times
Reputation: 12597
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
The problem in my opinion has to do with government interfering in controlling speech becaus someone gets offended. How would some women react if I call my wife and daughters the "female dog" word affectionatelly? How many women would react to that? Actually, now many would even sue me if I call my wife at work in front of them? There was a guy that got sued by a workmate because he had a picture of his wife in biking from when they went to the beach and the guy got fired for sexaul harassment.

I do remember one instance in the Republic of Georgia another Soldier and I were going to get interviewed by an American reporter. Right before the interview my friend and peer simulated an interview. He started to answer my question with Mexican accent like I speak. The reporter scolded us and said that was offensive. The other Soldier turn to me and asked me if I was offended. I said no and she got mad and left.

People are getting to sensitive and get to offended for just about anything to the point of infringing on free speech. What to do? Get Big Brother in the middle of it and later we complain for Big Brother meddling in our lives too much, take care
I don't know. I'm not arguing that people should be able to sue over using the B word. I am simply arguing that if you call me a B word, don't be surprised if I call you an A word. Etc. It's a two-way street.

I don't think we should censor speech. But I do think that we need to take responsibility for our words. If you use a highly volatile word, take responsibility for the increased risk of offense that comes with it.

You didn't find that offensive. Obviously the other woman did. You are both entitled to your feelings and opinions. I don't think Big Brother needs to enter the picture. I think we all need to take personal responsibility for our words, just as we are expected to do with our actions.
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Old 05-13-2011, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Reality
9,949 posts, read 8,852,274 times
Reputation: 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by overdose View Post
hey freedom of speech means you say what you want. Doesn't mean you are free to say it WHERE ever you want. Tell it to yourself in a closet. Use an offensive term on me, and I'll do more than stomp my feet.

funny how it will be done anyway. If you haven't learned to be decent then....well, you reap what you sow.
Actually yes it does mean what and where you want. Again, if you can't handle someone using an offensive term without losing your cool and physically attacking them then you need help. Most people who lose their cool like that end up dead and it's their own fault.
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