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So the profit of America, it's revenue generated by it's exports, that built this country's infrastructure was due to brain work and not hard labor. That's funny you can find quotes from most of those mentioned above always citing hard work, not brain power to their success. The truth is hard pill to swallow and something many of you will refuse to accept.
Blame that on the European nations and America who continually rape our fatherland, all they're doing now is re-instating neo-colonialism and inciting self hatred among our brothers and sisters. If it weren't for those devils Africa would be the richest place on the world in every aspect of the world. Just as the people of the African Diaspora, deserves reparations so do those of our sisters and brothersin the homeland.
How about accept responsibility for yourself, yourself.
And it would get too complicated. Only 2 out of every 5 white American had ancestors who were here before the Civil War--most Europeans came into the country later. And then there were the white people who were abolitionists and those who died in the Civil War on the Union side. Should their descendants have to pay for slavery? This can get just plain silly.
Yes, African-Americans lost their original history, and guess what. They are likely never going to find out where they came from for the most part, other than some generalities that can be linked via DNA testing. They also formed what can probably be considered the only truly American-born culture, created and formed here outside of the predominant culture from which they were excluded, with a few shadowy echoes of their origins tossed in. Don't throw out that most fascinating latter part by hanging too much onto the former, which is a dead end.
As someone else said already, isn't it best to concentrate on what can be done NOW to change the destinies of those American groups who aren't getting a fair shot rather than villifying the dead for what can never be changed?
It would be very complicated although their reparations would be for slavery and jim crow. By the time the latter rolled around, the majority of whites were here and either perpetrating or turning a blind eye to the plight if African-Americans. To the minority who did the right thing, good...that's what should have been donr.
It should be the choice of African-Americans whether to retain or disgard cultural aspects of their origin but they dont have that chance. Part of the problem today is the historical/cultural disconnect that the majority of other minority groups do not have, at least not to the same degree. I can't tell you the amount of times that I've heard...at least you have somewhere to go back to...your culture, history etc." People can try to downplay it all they want, but it makes a difference. It can make a significant difference to tell a child that their ancestors were from _______ , which was "this kind" of community, spoke this language etc as opposed "I dont know, they were slaves." Of course, DNA testing may be helpful to those who desire to know more. Either way, as you stated there is a mixture of new & old that keeps their culture going...and always will. But I personally wouldn't be upset if they were given reparations. Why should it bother me?
Last edited by ReineDeCoeur; 01-29-2013 at 10:07 PM..
The problem here is your perception of the Amendment. It was added nearly THREE YEARS after the Emancipation Proclamation (1/1/1863) on December 18th, 1865. It was not retroactive to before the end of the civil war. Again no reperations are due since slavery did not exist after the Amendment was added.
The amendment does nothing only repositions the institution of slavery. I only brought it up to show slavery was never abolished, contradictory to mainstream history. The issue of reparations was promised by the government and denied because this nation does not honor its own constitution nor it's African co called "citizens"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003
You need to read a little more history and get your facts straight.
Well why don't you enlighten me. You can't even refute the points I make.
LMAO it's funny you said food stamps, but let me address the bold. Africans were robbed of our heritage, culture, tongues, history, society, and identity not to mention land. After the institution was so called "abolished" which you should all know it wasn't. Every time Africans in this decrepit society chose to empower themselves we were systematically brought down, from Jim Crow to the FBI's COINTELPRO, to "War on Black Men" aka the War on Drugs. You people in here will continually deny what I'm saying or saying that it's either an excuse or some form of crying, but if blacks folks choose to empower themselves you will say we are being racist. Either is no point in divulging deeper into the context of our problems because whites will NEVER understand black people, our plight and will continue to deny the existence of our 400-600 yr old Holocaust. To mention reparations, white folk say we're asking for to much when it was a promise you white folks gave to us, matter of fact you're OBLIGED to give to us.
Just as the so-called Jews have received reparations due to the war crimes committed by Nazi Germany, so should be the same for the victims and descendants of the (ongoing) African Holocaust
But is there something intrinsically different about 'black' humans and all other humans? Yes, we need to look at the reality of the past. We need to start looking at American history long before it was settled. What sort of sociey was it? What factors ruled the way it worked? One was class. The first people used were those of a class within British and European society which was deemed to have no value other than its use. So they were used. Black slavery grew out of that, but in part it was economic. The price of black slaves dropped to where they were affordable. For a century before, black slaves had been available, but poor europeans were cheaper.
And it grew out of both European greed and African society. Don't make anyone a saint here. There were none.
And yes, the institution of Black slavery was horrible. Its notable that it was horrible enough that some people thought it horrible enough that they worked hard, risking their lives at times, to end it. The abolitionists were a rare breed, who saw past the general society. Maybe they didn't see much beyond the ending of the practice, but they saw a moral wrong practiced on human beings. It is due to this small but vocal and determined group of people that slavery was ended. They stirred the pot first which became the Civil War.
After, what happened happened because nobody had thought of what to do next so ways of using were rewritten. This is by no means unusual in human history. But it too was broken in time.
Others have had bleak pasts too, and chosen to look past them. But they did it one at a time, each person choosing to do so. You can't change the past. You can the future.
Today, we are in a time of flux, as the world and the technology of the world is altering it beyond our inate understanding. Tomorrow is going to look very different than yesterday for everyone. We'll be forming a segment of society with jobs, with training and with privilidge since only some can join it. It's not skin color or nationality or culture, its brain power. We'll be building a new gentry of those who understand and can function within the new society, and leaving behind those who can't.
Revising the 1600's and its excess population is not a good thing for the excess population, but we're doing it. The underclass of people we don't need anymore, those who do the jobs that robots will take over or have already (as we are on the cusp of it becomeing practical to repalce many more jobs with them) is going to grow. And black people will be a part of it. And so will whites and asians. And those who keep the machine oiled will also include all three.
But what sets those who succeed apart? What set those apart in European culture who did not let that grandparents were pesants and parents were craftsmen stop them from being neither, and seeing further? They did not *choose* to look back. They chose to look ahead. I don't buy that only black people can understand black people. Others have had similar histories, but have transended them. Not everyone and not every time did it work. But our society today is one which values those who can do. Those who are so stuck in the past, those who cling to all the old reasons why not, never will. And they can only get unstuck by making the choice to.
Want to improve your lot in life? Let go of the mental chains that hold you. Don't hold so hard to the past that it blinds you to the chances to get past it. This is only something that can done by each individual. And then, teach your kids to read and feed them books. Feed their imagination. Teach them that you value education and that no matter how many times you fail you have to keep trying. Teach them that what the local gangsters (of any color or culture) think they do not have to buy it.
Teach them that only they themselves can make their life better by chosing to take the actions which will and will make their own children's lives better in turn. This isn't reperations or wallowing in the past. This is putting all that away and excelling as far as they can.
This applies not to just black culture but any culture or subdivision of it. It's about anyone who decides yesterday has to stop them.
It applies to human beings. Maybe the first thing is to stop insisting that only a black person can understand. The whys are less important than the certainly that it has to matter. Maybe not buying that it has to be that way, and this applies to anyone who can find past issues to cling to, is what really drives us past our own little prisons.
Your ancestors are dead, and so are the ones that opressed them. Let them go and let their baggage go to.
What a terrible waste of people when you can't.
The new world is coming. It won't be a continent but a new way of life. If all you carry is a load of self pity, you won't be a part.
Right now I am relying on PBS. Do you trust them? They are having a program on the abolitionists that fought to end slavery. Why don't you watch it. It's on each week for awhile. I think you can even watch it on the Internet.
If it isn't right then email PBS and tell them they are spreading lies and you might also tell Obama while you are at it. The blacks fought on the side of the Union. Those who were freed before the war enlisted in droves to fight to end slavery.
That is a fascinating series. It's on the dvr to be cataloged.
The thing is, the war still didn't begin to free slaves. It was to stop the states from leaving. Later ending slavery became a tool to end the war.
The other thing is the way no one really considered what you do with all the freed slaves and thus they became easily used.
This doesn't mean that today, in a whole different world, that it can be used as an excuse by either side. And we really need to get past the idea that history and its causes and actions are simple and can be easily summarized in a few sentences with someone easy to blame.
And it would get too complicated. Only 2 out of every 5 white American had ancestors who were here before the Civil War--most Europeans came into the country later. And then there were the white people who were abolitionists and those who died in the Civil War on the Union side. Should their descendants have to pay for slavery? This can get just plain silly.
Yes, African-Americans lost their original history, and guess what. They are likely never going to find out where they came from for the most part, other than some generalities that can be linked via DNA testing. They also formed what can probably be considered the only truly American-born culture, created and formed here outside of the predominant culture from which they were excluded, with a few shadowy echoes of their origins tossed in. Don't throw out that most fascinating latter part by hanging too much onto the former, which is a dead end.
As someone else said already, isn't it best to concentrate on what can be done NOW to change the destinies of those American groups who aren't getting a fair shot rather than villifying the dead for what can never be changed?
What about those who's ancestors fought on both sides, AND sat out the whole thing?
If there is a genetic test that tells a black person where in africa they came from, I'd say go for it. But it isn't going to give you a sense of the culture they had without study. It puts them on the same level as someone who found their ancestors, but they are names and dates, maybe what they did. If you really want to know, start reading REAL history, the stuff that isn't simple or simplistic, and learn. Just knowing where is nothing without your own effort.
Maybe what we need to do is revise all the rules. Everyone has the chance of going to school, but you have to prove you want it enough and are willing to make the investment worth it. First six grades everyone gets. But you either show effort, ability and the desire to succeed or you go to vocational school. Then if you go past that you get higher level education, which will get you a whole lot higher, and have to keep proving yourself.
So the ones who can and will and will leave behind the baggage get all the good stuff. Yes, this system has existed with a class filter. Make this simple ability and will. Every individual has the chance and the only one who can kill it is themselves.
Even if its an individual, and its your own personal baggage, the ONLY way to get past it is to simply let it go since there is nothing you can do to change it. Same things with groups of individuals.
What these records show is that the modern slave trade flourished in the early middle ages, as early as 869, especially between Muslim traders and western African kingdoms. For moralists, the most important aspect of that trade should be that Muslims were selling goods to the African kingdoms and the African kingdoms were paying with their own people. In most instances, no violence was necessary to obtain those slaves. Contrary to legends and novels and Hollywood movies, the white traders did not need to savagely kill entire tribes in order to exact their tribute in slaves. All they needed to do is bring goods that appealed to the kings of those tribes. The kings would gladly sell their own subjects.
There are a few cultures that still arrest the whole family for what one member did and they make them pay for the dirty deed done by their relative. I hope most cultures have moved beyond that archaic thinking.
Ever think one of your ancestors was paid to sell your family to the slave traders? Africans did sell their brothers to slave traders. Think about that for a few minutes. It would be interesting to trace some lines back and find out just what happened. All families have their heroes and villains. Maybe Africa should pay reparations for letting that happen in their country to their own countrymen.
Neither was right, but the foundation of the U.S. was basically built off of our ancestors backs. And Africa had nothing to do with the U.S enforcing Jim Crow laws either. That was purely hatred on the part of whites.
And if you showed up at your job and your boss refused to pay you, would you be okay with that? I bet you would raise hell. And when a person dies, doesn't the money they earned usually go to their family? Basically the U.S. just does not want to pay for all the free labor it received. There are many corporations in the U.S who have even acknowledged they used slave labor to build their empire.
But is there something intrinsically different about 'black' humans and all other humans? Yes, we need to look at the reality of the past. We need to start looking at American history long before it was settled. What sort of sociey was it? What factors ruled the way it worked? One was class. The first people used were those of a class within British and European society which was deemed to have no value other than its use. So they were used. Black slavery grew out of that, but in part it was economic. The price of black slaves dropped to where they were affordable. For a century before, black slaves had been available, but poor europeans were cheaper.
And it grew out of both European greed and African society. Don't make anyone a saint here. There were none.
And yes, the institution of Black slavery was horrible. Its notable that it was horrible enough that some people thought it horrible enough that they worked hard, risking their lives at times, to end it. The abolitionists were a rare breed, who saw past the general society. Maybe they didn't see much beyond the ending of the practice, but they saw a moral wrong practiced on human beings. It is due to this small but vocal and determined group of people that slavery was ended. They stirred the pot first which became the Civil War.
After, what happened happened because nobody had thought of what to do next so ways of using were rewritten. This is by no means unusual in human history. But it too was broken in time.
Others have had bleak pasts too, and chosen to look past them. But they did it one at a time, each person choosing to do so. You can't change the past. You can the future.
Today, we are in a time of flux, as the world and the technology of the world is altering it beyond our inate understanding. Tomorrow is going to look very different than yesterday for everyone. We'll be forming a segment of society with jobs, with training and with privilidge since only some can join it. It's not skin color or nationality or culture, its brain power. We'll be building a new gentry of those who understand and can function within the new society, and leaving behind those who can't.
Revising the 1600's and its excess population is not a good thing for the excess population, but we're doing it. The underclass of people we don't need anymore, those who do the jobs that robots will take over or have already (as we are on the cusp of it becomeing practical to repalce many more jobs with them) is going to grow. And black people will be a part of it. And so will whites and asians. And those who keep the machine oiled will also include all three.
But what sets those who succeed apart? What set those apart in European culture who did not let that grandparents were pesants and parents were craftsmen stop them from being neither, and seeing further? They did not *choose* to look back. They chose to look ahead. I don't buy that only black people can understand black people. Others have had similar histories, but have transended them. Not everyone and not every time did it work. But our society today is one which values those who can do. Those who are so stuck in the past, those who cling to all the old reasons why not, never will. And they can only get unstuck by making the choice to.
Want to improve your lot in life? Let go of the mental chains that hold you. Don't hold so hard to the past that it blinds you to the chances to get past it. This is only something that can done by each individual. And then, teach your kids to read and feed them books. Feed their imagination. Teach them that you value education and that no matter how many times you fail you have to keep trying. Teach them that what the local gangsters (of any color or culture) think they do not have to buy it.
Teach them that only they themselves can make their life better by chosing to take the actions which will and will make their own children's lives better in turn. This isn't reperations or wallowing in the past. This is putting all that away and excelling as far as they can.
This applies not to just black culture but any culture or subdivision of it. It's about anyone who decides yesterday has to stop them.
It applies to human beings. Maybe the first thing is to stop insisting that only a black person can understand. The whys are less important than the certainly that it has to matter. Maybe not buying that it has to be that way, and this applies to anyone who can find past issues to cling to, is what really drives us past our own little prisons.
Your ancestors are dead, and so are the ones that opressed them. Let them go and let their baggage go to.
What a terrible waste of people when you can't.
The new world is coming. It won't be a continent but a new way of life. If all you carry is a load of self pity, you won't be a part.
I'll have a response to you in a minute.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003
In Senegambia, between 1300 and 1900, close to one-third of the population was enslaved.
What these records show is that the modern slave trade flourished in the early middle ages, as early as 869, especially between Muslim traders and western African kingdoms. For moralists, the most important aspect of that trade should be that Muslims were selling goods to the African kingdoms and the African kingdoms were paying with their own people. In most instances, no violence was necessary to obtain those slaves. Contrary to legends and novels and Hollywood movies, the white traders did not need to savagely kill entire tribes in order to exact their tribute in slaves. All they needed to do is bring goods that appealed to the kings of those tribes. The kings would gladly sell their own subjects.
One of the most unseemly manifestations of Black self-hatred is the often violently held belief that 500 years ago Africans sold other Africans into centuries of slavery. It is erroneously believed that after thousands of years of African life, Blacks all of a sudden collapsed into internecine strife and started killing each other, selling their fellow kinsmen to foreigners for profit.
The fact is that Portuguese “explorers” mastered a pattern of European conquest that is 6,000 years old. They deliberately created mixed-race subgroups with the intention of using them to capture and enslave the native African populations. Arriving on the Cape Verde islands in the late 1400s, Jewish slave merchants kidnapped and raped African women, and the mixed-race offspring, called lançados, were raised on the islands as European Jews, practicing Judaism and respecting Jewish authority. These lançados were sent into the African mainland to set up an international “trading post” to at first market the fine fabrics being produced by the Africans. But soon they turned on their hosts and began trading in Black human beings. The lançados were strictly trained in the Jewish family business of slave-dealing. It was these half-breed, mixed-race (or mulatto) “half-ricans” who infiltrated the Black African communities, seeking to satisfy the European lust for Black labor.
Historian Walter Rodney described these “AFRICAN” slave traders thus: “Many of the private traders were mulattoes, already linked to the Africans by blood, and there were those who had become so integrated into African life that they wore tribal tattoos. It was these who were the authentic lançados, literally ‘those who had thrown themselves’ among the Africans.”
To my African brothers and sisters LOOK for the truth, understand what has been deliberately hidden then understand why it has been deliberately hidden.
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