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This begs the question, who, precisely is the slave? Senator Paul seems to think that it’s the doctors whereas you think it’s the taxpayer.
It's both actually. If the government requires the doctor to service a certain # of patients at a lower than market price, it's slavery to the doctor. If the government overpays or pays market price for the service, then the taxpayer is a slave. The proportion of slavery depends on how much the government pays relative to the market value of the service.
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To equate holding a salaried position with slavery is nonsensical.
I disagree if the government pays below market prices or in any way coerces the doctor to service a certain # of patients in its program.
So now we need to learn to distinguish between right, privilege and now COURTESY.
So the only thing you can dispute from my posting is a typo.. Good, we're making progress...
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Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie
Then exactly what is a right?
A right you dont have to ASK for.. They are granted to you from our "creator".. Do you have to ASK for healthcare? yes, yes you do.. Its something that cant be denied to you. Can they deny you healthcare, yes, yes they can. Its something that doesnt demand another one provide something to you.. Does healthcare demand something of others? yes, yes it does.
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Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie
Is it something that the government is willing to protect and is spelled out multiple times in the Bill or Rights?
You need to re-read the Bill of Rights because they dont grant you rights. The Bill of Rights LIMITS governments ability to establish laws infringing upon your rights. The founding fathers believed we had rights endowed to us by our creator, and government had no ability to limit those rights. Healthcare demands someone DO something, thereby its not a right. Not ONE section of the Bill of Rights demand you do something. It leaves it open to your willingness to do what they are not allowed to infringe upon.
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Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie
Then other people say if it's something you can do free like breath air, then it's clearly a right.
breathing is a right, you dont need to ask for permission to do so. Does breathing demand someone else provide you with something? No it doesnt. Can they deny you oxygen? No they cant.
So when you used education as an example of our rights, you are now admitting it was immateral? I've never once argued that my previous postings were immateral, but if you wish to call your previous postings immaterial, I guess thats your right..
Clearly comprehension is difficult for many americans.. The fact that people CHOOSE to receive payment for a service, doesnt mean you have a right to DEMAND that they do..
I didn’t use education as a example of a right (someone else brought up that issue). I used public school teachers as an example of people who are paid by the taxpayer to perform a service. They choose to work for the public and are not slaves.
Whether or not the service is a “right” makes no difference. For example, we have public libraries. They are a civic good, but few argue that we have the “right” to borrow mystery novels from the library. However, many librarians choose to work in public libraries. Others choose to work in academic or private libraries. None are slaves.
To the other point, no one is demanding that anyone be forced to work in a particular job. Where in any healthcare law, or even proposal, does it require doctors to work for a particular organization (public or private)? This is a red herring meant to get people worked up. No one is forcing (or “demanding”) that anyone do any job.
To listen to you we need to consider, further, that no one has the right to drop dead in the street from the result of not having the right to health care, because someone's labor will be needed to pick that dead person up from the street. Thank God, we have the right to breath air since it takes no human labor to give us that air.
Please let me know what you do for a living and when I can stop by and get me some free of whatever you do!
If you have a right to my labor, surely I have a right to yours.
Sanders entirely missed the point of Paul's comment... 'should the government conscript him to perform his medical service'. That's servitude and is slavery. That was the import of Paul's analogy.
That Dr. Krause loves her job and gladly goes to work everyday has absolutely no import whatever to Paul's comment. Dr. Krause is/has/was NOT conscripted to perform her medical duties. She accepted a position of her choosing with expectation of an agreed payment for her service.
Sanders made not only a fool of himself (well, attempt to, but as he's a fool already, he could only compound the issue) but sought to lower the status of Dr. Krause by using her in his jest. Too bad she was not offered the opportunity to advise him of such.
Sanders is so far to the left on others working /payoing for what others think they are born with a right to;I never expect him to think differently.He is always i left field wanting others to pay really.
I didn’t use education as a example of a right (someone else brought up that issue). I used public school teachers as an example of people who are paid by the taxpayer to perform a service. They choose to work for the public and are not slaves.
Whether or not the service is a “right” makes no difference. For example, we have public libraries. They are a civic good, but few argue that we have the “right” to borrow mystery novels from the library. However, many librarians choose to work in public libraries. Others choose to work in academic or private libraries. None are slaves.
To the other point, no one is demanding that anyone be forced to work in a particular job. Where in any healthcare law, or even proposal, does it require doctors to work for a particular organization (public or private)? This is a red herring meant to get people worked up. No one is forcing (or “demanding”) that anyone do any job.
Libraries and teachers are locally paid. If you have the means to move in a township with a more streamlined educational system and fewer libraries, that is your right. Under a federal system, that ability is negated.
I didn’t use education as a example of a right (someone else brought up that issue). I used public school teachers as an example of people who are paid by the taxpayer to perform a service. They choose to work for the public and are not slaves.
Thats right, they choose to work and are not slaves, just like you choose to send your children to school x, its a CHOICE.. its not a right.
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Originally Posted by tpk-nyc
Whether or not the service is a “right” makes no difference.
See this is where you go wrong again. It makes all the difference in the world because if I can now start to demand that you do something for me, its slavery regarless if I pay you for those services. I have now FORCED you to spend your time for MY needs.
Thats like saying rape isnt rape if you give them $20 when you are done.. Nonsense.
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Originally Posted by tpk-nyc
For example, we have public libraries. They are a civic good, but few argue that we have the “right” to borrow mystery novels from the library. However, many librarians choose to work in public libraries. Others choose to work in academic or private libraries. None are slaves.
You are actually making Pauls argument for him.. They CHOOSE to work in the libraries, as a taxpayer you CHOOSE to fund libraries, its a CHOICE.. If libraries were a right, you could demand they loan you books, you could demand that they help you find a book, you could even force me to loan out my private library for your needs. But you cant.. its not a right no more than you can demand someone provide you with healthcare..
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Originally Posted by tpk-nyc
To the other point, no one is demanding that anyone be forced to work in a particular job. Where in any healthcare law, or even proposal, does it require doctors to work for a particular organization (public or private)? This is a red herring meant to get people worked up. No one is forcing (or “demanding”) that anyone do any job.
You are completely missing the point.. Its not if someone is demanding that you be forced to work in a particular job, its if you can demand that SOMEONE, ANYONE provide a service for that job. The fact that you could choose to leave doesnt mean the comparison isnt valid. For example, after the civil war, many slaves continued to work for their "masters", does the fact that they continued to choose to work minimize the fact that they were slaves? NO..
How many liberals run around proclaiming employees are slaves to their corporate masters even though you have a choice to work for them or not? Now all of a sudden the comparison isnt valid even though government wants people to DEMAND service?
A RIGHT is something afforded to you and can not be taken away from you.. healthcare is NOT a right, and if you can demand it, then yes, its equivelant to slavery. The fact that people "choose" to work there, or they are paid to work there, doesnt mean that the comparison is not valid because you are DEMANDING the service be done for you..
I didn’t use education as a example of a right (someone else brought up that issue). I used public school teachers as an example of people who are paid by the taxpayer to perform a service. They choose to work for the public and are not slaves.
Whether or not the service is a “right” makes no difference. For example, we have public libraries. They are a civic good, but few argue that we have the “right” to borrow mystery novels from the library. However, many librarians choose to work in public libraries. Others choose to work in academic or private libraries. None are slaves.
To the other point, no one is demanding that anyone be forced to work in a particular job. Where in any healthcare law, or even proposal, does it require doctors to work for a particular organization (public or private)? This is a red herring meant to get people worked up. No one is forcing (or “demanding”) that anyone do any job.
But under the 'Affordable Healthcare Act' the government will control the 'rights' of the work place. Doctors will be employed at the will and pleasure of the government, should the government decide to allow that employment. This becomes coercion... servitude... slavery.
But under the 'Affordable Healthcare Act' the government will control the 'rights' of the work place. Doctors will be employed at the will and pleasure of the government, should the government decide to allow that employment. This becomes coercion... servitude... slavery.
^ this
If government involves itself in the tightening or expansion of a free market service it manages, that is indeed slavery.
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Clearly comprehension is difficult for many americans.. The fact that people CHOOSE to receive payment for a service, doesnt mean you have a right to DEMAND that they do..
