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i understand the patriotism that is driving this discussion, but i think ron paul was right.
Paul said the United States should have gone after bin Laden the same way it went after Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, architect of the Sept. 11 attacks, by working with the Pakistan government.
"They arrested him, actually, and turned him over to us," Paul said, suggesting the same formula should have applied to bin Laden.
why not?
again, if he was living next to a military base with 3 of his wives and many of his children for years, somebody knew. i can't even speculate who knew about this but i have a logical thought process on it.
The fact that "somebody knew" (YOUR words) was the REASON we went in on our own. You are RIGHT in that "somebody knew" - and we had (and perhaps still don't) no idea WHO that "somebody" or "somebodies" was/were. So IF we told the Pakistani's what we knew/suspected about Osama's location, there was a chance that that "somebody" or "somebodies" would hear about it and Bin Laden would slip away before the Pakistani's acted. The fact is, in this specific case the Pakistani's had been CLEARLY compromised - and you don't share info about the #1 most wanted guy in the world with the folks who are infiltrated by the terrorists HIDING that guy.
Of course maybe that's what folks on the Right would have wanted - to be able to point with glee to how Bin Laden got away because Obama shared intel with the "terrorists-infiltrated Pakistani's". FOX News would have LOVED that.
The end result is - we GOT the guy, and the Pakistani's have been publically humiliated by the exposure of the fact that Bin Laden was right under their nose for at least 5 years. Maybe NOW they'll root out the rotten apples in their own inner circle. Whoever it is is probably pretty nervous about whether or not their identity will be revealed by the computer data we captured at Bin Laden's house.
The fact is, Ron Paul's stand on this is VERY naive (and this after all those folks like yourself having spent the last few years calling Obama "naive"?)
The fact is, in this specific case the Pakistani's had been CLEARLY compromised - and you don't share info about the #1 most wanted guy in the world with the folks who are infiltrated by the terrorists HIDING that guy.
I'm sorry, but what exactly makes this clear? Maybe you are privy to some information the rest of the world isnt, or are you just making things up again?
The fact that "somebody knew" (YOUR words) was the REASON we went in on our own. You are RIGHT in that "somebody knew" - and we had (and perhaps still don't) no idea WHO that "somebody" or "somebodies" was/were. So IF we told the Pakistani's what we knew/suspected about Osama's location, there was a chance that that "somebody" or "somebodies" would hear about it and Bin Laden would slip away before the Pakistani's acted. The fact is, in this specific case the Pakistani's had been CLEARLY compromised - and you don't share info about the #1 most wanted guy in the world with the folks who are infiltrated by the terrorists HIDING that guy.
Of course maybe that's what folks on the Right would have wanted - to be able to point with glee how Bin Laden got away because Obama shared intel with the "terrorists-infiltrated Pakistani's". FOX News would have LOVED that.
The end result is - we GOT the guy, and the Pakistani's have been publically humiliated by the exposure of the fact that Bin Laden was right under their nose for at least 5 years. Maybe NOW they'll root out the rotten apples in their own inner circle. Whoever it is is probably pretty nervous about whether or not their identity will be revealed by the computer data we captured at Bin Laden's house.
Ken
i could care less what fox news would or wouldn't love-because they are clearly pushing us towards action against pakistan.
where was OUR surveillance all this time?
(for the 5 or 6 years that bin laden was living with those wives)
you don't seriously believe we spent 2 trillion dollars and wouldn't keep the family under surveillance?
Last edited by floridasandy; 05-13-2011 at 05:52 AM..
I'm sorry, but what exactly makes this clear? Maybe you are privy to some information the rest of the world isnt, or are you just making things up again?
Oh don't be an idiot.
Even the PAKISTANI'S admit that clearly "somebody knew".
i could care less what fox news would or wouldn't love-because they are clearly pushing us towards action against pakistan.
where was OUR surveillance all this time?
(for the 5 or 6 years that bin laden was living with those wives)
you don't seriously believe we spent 2 trillion dollars and wouldn't keep the family under surveillance?
You DO know that Bush GUTTED the US Pakistan-based team searching for Bin Laden some 6 years AGO. Maybe if that HADN'T HAPPENED we WOULD have known about him/them.
Did we even KNOW about THOSE wives? Has SEVERAL. I think those are NEW wives.
I have no problem with mr obama's move on bin laden. Having said that ron paul's statement is in line with his philosophy. Fact is he wants to close our overseas bases. He wants our govenment to stop playing "empire." I see consistancy here.
The fact of the matter is bin laden is dead. Why do we continue to play "empire?" If the world needs a policeman.......let them call on someone else. I see no reason to protect other nations borders......when we cannot, will not, protect our own. Let us start electing politicians for what they do for us, not albanians in serbia.
Clearly a rogue element helped bin laden, i.e. they had to get him food for example, because he couldnt walk around in town, but having help from rogue elements, and your claim, which was that Pakistan knew, isnt the same thing, is it? NO its not..
You DO know that Bush GUTTED the US Pakistan-based team searching for Bin Laden some 6 years AGO. Maybe if that HADN'T HAPPENED we WOULD have known about him/them.
Did we even KNOW about THOSE wives? Has SEVERAL. I think those are NEW wives.
Ken
Blame mr bush if you want but we wouldn't have caught bin laden if we hadn't water boarded kalid sheik mohammed to get the name of that courier. And we all know mr obama would just have given him his miranda rights and a lawyer.
let me add that i saw a very good response to ron paul's original letter of marque proposal and think it is worth reprinting:
The Common Law ‘Letter of Marque and Reprisal’ was established [1790s] specifically to deal with kidnapping, murder, theft, piracy and other violent acts against American Citizens.
Groups targeted included the famous “Barbary Pirates” of North Africa, the pirates of the Caribbean, Mexican outlaw bands and several indian tribes.
These groups regularly attacked, kidnapped, killed and robbed American Citizens as well as citizens of other countries. But Congress did not have the resources to send in the Marines for every incident.
Ergo, they codified the right of Americans to use force to rescue victims and recover property through the issuance of ‘Letters of Marque and Reprisal’.
Unlike today’s civil law ‘temporary restraining orders – TRO’ which are handed out like candy, without a hearing or testimony; ‘Letters of Marque and Reprisal’ were only issued by Congress after a public hearing and only for a particular incident.
This is a far cry from the ‘star-chamber’ legal system genociding America today.
Elaine, I’m stunned that YOU of all people who have bravely, even defiantly called out the looting of Americans by various mafias would so completely fail to perceive the power of ‘Letters of Marque and Reprisal’!
I believe many of our troubles would be quickly resolved if American Citizens petitioned Congress for Letters of Marque and Reprisal against the international money cartels that have looted their children, jobs, homes, minds and very lives.
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