They say "bring jobs back to America" but they also say "tax the rich". Liberals please pick one... (Canada, cost)
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Imagine your an evil rich person who hires and fires people at an evil private company.
You want to tax the bejeezus out of this awful rich guy because its not fair that he has so much money.
But you also want him not to pick up and move his company to a low tax country like Singapore because those fat union jobs (and union due$) would disappear too, thus making the union bosses less powerful.
Can't you see the bind Mr. evil entrepreneur is in?
Maybe in his cold, black heart there is a spark of warmth. Perhaps he would like to remain in New York or California but the 35% corporate tax rate (passed by liberals in the state legislature who receive massive campaign funds from unions) makes it impossible for him to compete with other companies. (I know in your utopian world there is no economic competition and the State decides which favored company shall prevail, but bear with me...)
Why not lower taxes a bit so he can bring those jobs back to America. Sure that would be a little less money with which the Democratic party can play with and dole out to favored special interests but why chase him away with taxes?
Corporate America already has more tax breaks than they need, and they persist in hiring overseas.
If they wish to remain in business America they should either be made to hire American workers or be taxed out of existence. We need legislation something like exists for American content in automobiles. For every foreign job you create, you must create an American job.
If they don't like it, let them leave, and impose tarriffs on their foreign goods so that American goods can compete. That is how you create jobs. Trickle Down is a republican LIE.
To the OP....most of us are more than capable of understanding more than one issue and that most problems require various integrated solutions.
Therefore we don't need your condescending thread telling "us" to pick just one option tailored to your agenda!
Cuebald in post #112 made an intellligent, thoughtful post addressing the issue at hand. Even though I disagree with what was written, I respect an advancement of this discussion on his part.
Your post, on the other hand, was emotional and spoke for people other than yourself. It did nothing to further the discussion.
Why not just post some of your "various integrated solutions" for everyone to ponder?
why are you bringing up the 1800's. Not sure that supports your argument.
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Originally Posted by OhioIstheBest
first off, go educate yourself, manufacturing wages in the United States rose 57% between 1860-1890 and another 34% between 1891-1914. Adjusted for inflation.
if you are taking average wages, that is skewed by income growth by the upper income earners. While you point at modest gains of 2% or 3% per year the wealthy have seen income gains of 300% 400% and more over the same time periods. If you take therir gains out of the equation, middle income earners have seen little of no gains over those time periods, what ever they were.
Quote:
This is when about 2% of the work force was union. There were no laws protecting unions or workers in general. And millions and millions of union workers were leaving Western Europe to work in non-union America.
Unions wre started to keep blacks and Asians from taking jobs from white people. They have never been about raising wages. In fact, they supress wages.
And look at Mexico. Workers there quit on companies in a heart beat becasue another company comes along and offers more pay and/or better conditions. Talk to anyone that runs a manufacturing plant in Mexico. They are very frustated because they can't keep people.
They say "bring jobs back to America" but they also say "tax the rich". Liberals please pick one...
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10
Dear progressives:
Imagine your an evil rich person who hires and fires people at an evil private company.
You want to tax the bejeezus out of this awful rich guy because its not fair that he has so much money.
But you also want him not to pick up and move his company to a low tax country like Singapore because those fat union jobs (and union due$) would disappear too, thus making the union bosses less powerful.
Can't you see the bind Mr. evil entrepreneur is in?
Maybe in his cold, black heart there is a spark of warmth. Perhaps he would like to remain in New York or California but the 35% corporate tax rate (passed by liberals in the state legislature who receive massive campaign funds from unions) makes it impossible for him to compete with other companies. (I know in your utopian world there is no economic competition and the State decides which favored company shall prevail, but bear with me...)
Why not lower taxes a bit so he can bring those jobs back to America. Sure that would be a little less money with which the Democratic party can play with and dole out to favored special interests but why chase him away with taxes?
Dear conservadroids...
1. Your favorite rich guys have had their tax breaks for a decade now.
2. They've sent millions of American jobs to China.
3. The past decade has seen the lowest job growth in America since the Great Depression.
So, what was that connection you were trying so hard to make between tax cuts and job creation?
Maybe, in a supreme stroke of irony, the Chinese offer less tax burdens on American companies.
Or maybe you're entirely wrong! We aren't talking about Chinese companies, we're talking about American companies. And corporations in the United States of America enjoy the lowest tax burden as a percentage of GDP of ANY OEDC nation on this planet (except Turkey, with whom we're tied).
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Originally Posted by clb10
If you, as a liberal, ran a Fortune 500 company what would you do to make things "right".
Whatever your answer is I guarantee it would destroy the company.
You can't make any such guarantee.
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Originally Posted by clb10
Please liberals, TAKE A BUSINESS CLASS!
This is actually quite funny.
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Originally Posted by swagger
And I will never understand why liberals have so much hate for them.
People are people. How much money one has doesn't define who they are or if they're a "good" or "bad" person.
I favor neither rich people nor poor people, but I do believe that people should get to keep as much as they can of what they earn, and for that, some on this board make wild accusations about what they think I believe.
Liberals do not hate the rich. We hate the Republican party for embracing economic policies and enacting tax laws that favor the rich over the middle class, which has resulted in upward wealth redistribution from the middle class to the wealthy of $650 BILLION.
Why do more than 98% of American workers make more than the government enforced minimum wage? No one is forcing them to pay these high wages.
According to you they would like to pay 65 cents a hour.
A figure I suspect you pulled out of a dark nether-region. Here is the reality:
For those who still think the wealthy are paying their "fair" share, I direct you to this study just published by Uber-Conservative Republican Senator Tom Coburn: Subsidies of the Rich & Famous
Dear Taxpayer,
The government safety net has been cast far and wide, with almost half of all American households now receiving some form of government assistance. But most taxpayers will be asking why when they learn who is receiving what.
From tax write-offs for gambling losses, vacation homes, and luxury yachts to subsidies for their ranches and estates, the government is subsidizing the lifestyles of the rich and famous. Multimillionaires are even receiving government checks for not working. This welfare for the well-off – costing billions of dollars a year – is being paid for with the taxes of the less fortunate, many who are working two jobs just to make ends meet, and IOUs to be paid off by future
generations. This is not an accidental loophole in the law. To the contrary, this reverse Robin Hood style of wealth redistribution is an intentional effort to get all Americans bought into a system where everyone appears to benefit. ...
The government’s social safety net, which has long existed to catch those who are down and help them get back up, is now being used as a hammock by some millionaires, some who are paying less taxes than average middle class families. Comprehensive information on the full range of government benefits enjoyed by millionaires has never been collected previously. This report provides the first such compilation. What it reveals is sheer Washington stupidity with government policies pampering the wealthy costing taxpayers billions of dollars every year.
You have been hoodwinked. But it's not your fault. It's the fault of the party who have spoon-fed you lies for decades. They actually have a MANUAL that tells them exactly what to say and how to say it so you buy into it! I'm serious. Check it out:
So you don't have to slog through the whole thing, here's a nifty little slideshow for you:
[Luntz's] new memo instructs opponents of financial reform to simply lie about reform legislation, and to twist economic anxiety resulting from the recession into fear of any government effort to fix the underlying cause of the financial crisis. The most dishonest argument is that financial reform would “punish” taxpayers while rewarding “big banks and credit card companies.” In reality, top financial industry lobbyists are not only fighting proposed oversight regulations, but have said recently that they are opposed to “any regulation” at all.
Stop letting Republican STRATEGISTS inform your way of thinking about issues. Start looking at empirical data.
This country is in crisis and right now there is only one party that is willing to take steps to actually try to fix it. The other party is merely campaigning on a bill of goods while actively thwarting any good-faith effort to move this country ahead and out of our fiscal crisis.
Stop believing the lies.
Democrats and liberals don't want to "take from the rich and give to the poor." Rather, Democrats want to establish a system in which the hard work of labor is rewarded fairly, and not held down to 1965 income levels while the super rich suck up 100% of the profits that those who actually labored helped generate.
Democrats and liberals don't want to "tax the rich to death." Democrats and liberals want the rich to pay a fair tax on all their sources of income. Capital gains that do not require any labor at all, should never be taxed at a lower rate than actual labor.
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." ~ Abraham Lincoln
Return the capital gains tax rate back to at least the rate we tax income from real work. That's what Democrats mean by "fair" tax policies.
This is not a war between the rich and the middle class. This is a war between sane tax policy and the insane tax policies that have literally destroyed the middle class in this country.
READ SENATOR COBURN'S REPORT, THEN CALL YOUR REPRESENTATIVES IN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE AND TELL THEM TO DO THE RIGHT THING.
The liberals want to send our jobs to Mexico and Canada... Well if you don't like America, than git the hell out!
I recommend the same thing for all American corporations who don't seem to like it here. If American tax policy and regulations suck so much, un-incorporate yourself in the United States and go be a corporation in China or India. We might still be happy to buy your goods.
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