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The discussion wasnt if cost might decrease for some segment of the population, it says it will increase..
The discussion started with whining about cost increase. You supported the whine by presenting only a fraction of the reality, a spin. I called you out on that. Case closed.
Funny how you like the CBO when it agrees with you, but dismiss it when it does not.
I've mentioned this twice in this thread just for it to be completely ignored. Let not facts get in the way of how we "wish it to be".
-Obama said energy prices would rise under his plan. They are.
-He has expanded government by 400K jobs and 200 bills.
-He has allowed the FED to devalue the dollar in order to artificially improve exports and bring down the debt (laugh), which is great for corporations that export products.
-The FED "playing with the money" has wrecked havoc on commodities. Have your food bills gone up?
-Obama said the Affordable Care Act would be affordable. The CBO has come out three times and said it isn't. It neither lowers premiums, nor does it save the taxpayer's money.
If Bush Sr. put us in this position he wouldn't have been re-elected... oh that's right, he wasn't! We elected some unknown Governor named Clinton because of the "read my lips" thing, and taxes being raised.
Keep in mind this guy held back because he wanted to be re-electable. So what level of common sense are we at if we ask for four more years of this kind of legislative abuse?
1-Obama said energy prices would rise under his plan. They are.
2-He has expanded government by 400K jobs and 200 bills.
3-He has allowed the FED to devalue the dollar in order to artificially improve exports and bring down the debt (laugh), which is great for corporations that export products.
4-The FED "playing with the money" has wrecked havoc on commodities. Have your food bills gone up?
5-Obama said the Affordable Care Act would be affordable. The CBO has come out three times and said it isn't. It neither lowers premiums, nor does it save the taxpayer's money.
If Bush Sr. put us in this position he wouldn't have been re-elected... oh that's right, he wasn't! We elected some unknown Governor named Clinton because of the "read my lips" thing, and taxes being raised.
Keep in mind this guy held back because he wanted to be re-electable. So what level of common sense are we at if we ask for four more years of this kind of legislative abuse?
Still missing Bush Sr, eh? But to deal with your anti-Obama propaganda,
1- Energy prices haven't been destined to go down. No plan needed for it to go up, if you've basic understanding of economics.
2- Lie, or simply a case of bad math. When Obama took office in Jan 2009, the government payroll stood at 22.582 million. In Jan 2011, the government payroll was 22.226 million. In my world, 22.226 million is less than 22.582 million by 356K. In other words, you either ignorantly or deliberately bloated the count by a whopping 756K and in the wrong direction.
3- Fed came into play on and after Jan 09? Get educated.
4- Fed came into play on and after Jan 09? Get educated.
5- Lie. If the signs weren't clear to you about affordability and the direction of the health care system in America, the lies, ignorance and misinformation start to make sense, of their purpose.
2-He has expanded government by 400K jobs and 200 bills.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost
2- Lie, or simply a case of bad math. When Obama took office in Jan 2009, the government payroll stood at 22.582 million. In Jan 2011, the government payroll was 22.226 million. In my world, 22.226 million is less than 22.582 million by 356K. In other words, you either ignorantly or deliberately bloated the count by a whopping 756K and in the wrong direction.
To clarify this, the right-wing spin machine counts the 500,000 temporary census workers as the Obama increase in the size of government, which is deliberately misleading because this occurs every ten years. But it fools the weak-minded into believing their false narrative. As you can see from the below chart, the greatest increases in federal employment occurred during the Bush Administration. The spike and drop at the end is the census workers previously discussed. The net result is that federal employment is no greater than when Obama was inaugurated.
5- Affordable Care Act: Contrary to what steven_h said, the CBO has stated that the Act saves the taxpayers money -- and here they are stating it (http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collections/health.cfm - broken link):
Quote:
The Congress has recently approved major health care legislation in the form of two pieces of legislation: the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA, Public Law 111-148); and, following that, the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 (H.R. 4872), which made a number of changes to provisions of PPACA along with significant changes to the federal postsecondary education programs.
On March 20, 2010, CBO released its final cost estimate for the reconciliation act, which encompassed the effects of both pieces of legislation. Table 1 (on page 5) provides a broad summary and Table 2 offers a detailed breakdown of the budgetary effects of the two pieces of legislation. CBO and the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) estimate that enacting both pieces of legislation will produce a net reduction in federal deficits of $143 billion over the 2010-2019 period. About $124 billion of that savings stems from provisions dealing with health care and federal revenues; the other $19 billion results from the education provisions.
To clarify this, the right-wing spin machine counts the 500,000 temporary census workers as the Obama increase in the size of government, which is deliberately misleading because this occurs every ten years. But it fools the weak-minded into believing their false narrative. As you can see from the below chart, the greatest increases in federal employment occurred during the Bush Administration. The spike and drop at the end is the census workers previously discussed. The net result is that federal employment is no greater than when Obama was inaugurated.
5- Affordable Care Act: Contrary to what steven_h said, the CBO has stated that the Act saves the taxpayers money -- and here they are stating it (http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collections/health.cfm - broken link):
To clarify this, the right-wing spin machine counts the 500,000 temporary census workers as the Obama increase in the size of government, which is deliberately misleading because this occurs every ten years. But it fools the weak-minded into believing their false narrative. As you can see from the below chart, the greatest increases in federal employment occurred during the Bush Administration. The spike and drop at the end is the census workers previously discussed. The net result is that federal employment is no greater than when Obama was inaugurated.
5- Affordable Care Act: Contrary to what steven_h said, the CBO has stated that the Act saves the taxpayers money -- and here they are stating it (http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collections/health.cfm - broken link):
Ta da!
Quote:
The projected net reduction in deficits is the difference between $813 billion in projected additional revenues and $604 billion in projected additional outlays.
That would be the nearly $1 trillion in new taxes (revenues) that Obama wasn't, and isn't, raising.
Only a liberal could manage to see higher taxes along with higher spending as a savings.
You forgot this part from your source:
Quote:
...mostly from new taxes and fees, and $732 billion in outlay savings for Medicare and other federal health care programs...
Everyone thinks of it that way. Milky Way measures how much raising the price of the candy and cutting its size as adding to the bottom line.
With the government, spending on the Act is a cost and measuring the fees adds to the revenue side. Reducing the cost of Medicare is also a savings. The net is how much better it is for the Treasury. It's not sinister it just is.
You forgot this part from your source:
Everyone thinks of it that way. Milky Way measures how much raising the price of the candy and cutting its size as adding to the bottom line.
With the government, spending on the Act is a cost and measuring the fees adds to the revenue side. Reducing the cost of Medicare is also a savings. The net is how much better it is for the Treasury. It's not sinister it just is.
Ohh, you're right, but I didn't think we were talking about democrats decapitating medicare. We can talk about that too, if you'd like.
Insurance premiums have been going up 10 to 15 percent for most every year for several years. Now that it goes up 10 to 15 percent this year, it's Obama's fault, of course.
Nice try, but every single analysis of Obamacare states that insurance costs MUST go up specifically to cover the extra mandates of Obamacare, among them coverage for all those being brought into the system, the requirements that pre-existing conditions cannot be used to prevent coverage, no lifetime caps, parents carrying their kids on their insurance up to age 26, and full "mental health parity" where any mental problem must be fully covered as if it were a curable medical problem--among others. These are not free--they are ALL very expensive.
Obamacare could have used this opportunity to do things that would have brought costs down. They did NOTHING. Massive doctor shortages are now predicted, and the sheer complexity of Obamacare (with over 150 new governing agencies created) makes any kind of flow chart or graphic representation of the process impossible. Implementation will be equally impossible.
On top of all the extra costs to the system that will be paid by users, we also have over $1 trillion in taxes over the next 10 years. Can our economy afford an extra $1 trillion (to start--will be far more as we get into it) in taxes given the state of the economy and the constantly-skyrocketing $14 trillion in debt already?
Obamacare would have bankrupted America even if imposed at the height of one of the bubble-booms. By imposing it now, our government is basically nailing the coffin on the American economy and nation.
It will be interesting to see what rises from the ashes--if anything--after the final meltdown caused by decades of Big Government and Big Business collusion.
5- Affordable Care Act: Contrary to what steven_h said, the CBO has stated that the Act saves the taxpayers money -- and here they are stating it (http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collections/health.cfm - broken link):
Ta da!
No, the CBO has never concluded that Obamacare saves money:
"The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) says that Obamacare would increase the national debt. The CBO writes that, by the end of 2019 alone, Obamacare "would amount to a net increase in federal deficits of $226 billion."... the $226 billion in projected debt spending doesn't include "the $115 billion needed to implement the law." (That figure of $115 billion is provided by the CBO as well.) So, $115 billion plus $226 billion equals $341 billion that Obamacare would add to the national debt by the end of 2019." CBO: Obamacare Would Increase National Debt, Spend Medicare
"Last week, the Congressional Budget Office released its report...The takeaway message was that American taxpayers simply cannot afford Obamacare...Obamacare proponents say the new law cuts the deficit. But the CBO report pulls the mask off the bill and reveals what it really is: a massive tax increase that, on paper at least, is slightly greater than the massive spending hike it also contains." New CBO Report Proves We Cannot Afford Obamacare | The Foundry
There are hundreds of other sites, but not one says that the CBO has said Obamacare would save money.
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