Government run healthcare, is here now! (minimum wage, racist, financial, elect)

[Jaggy001]

One way to get cost out of the current system is to eliminate administrative waste which is estimated to cost 25% of the total. That is around $500 billion.

A first step to doing that is to have a single set of rates rather than every different insurance provider/medicare/medicaid having their own "negotiated" rates. That would take a huge administrative burden off of the system.

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by Jaggy001

One way to get cost out of the current system is to eliminate administrative waste which is estimated to cost 25% of the total. That is around $500 billion.

A first step to doing that is to have a single set of rates rather than every different insurance provider/medicare/medicaid having their own "negotiated" rates. That would take a huge administrative burden off of the system.

the admin costs are nothing...in fact as most lefties say the admin costs of medicare/ciad are less than 10%


the fact is medicine costs

look at the hospitals...they spend over 400,000 a MONTH just on electric....thats nearly 5 million a year...just to power the building

A first step to doing that is to have a single set of rates rather than every different insurance provider/medicare/medicaid having their own "negotiated" rates. That would take a huge administrative burden off of the system

yep and look at medicare/ciad..they pay crap to the doctors..so low that doctors are shying away from care/caid

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

the admin costs are nothing...in fact as most lefties say the admin costs of medicare/ciad are less than 10%


the fact is medicine costs

look at the hospitals...they spend over 400,000 a MONTH just on electric....thats nearly 5 million a year...just to power the building

yep and look at medicare/ciad..they pay crap to the doctors..so low that doctors are shying away from care/caid

The admin costs of medicare/medicaid are low, but the admin costs of pvt insurance are high, 30% by some estimates, and that's before profits are added in.

You have an obsession with hospitals' power bills. I can assure you that's nothing compared to their nursing budgets.

[jmking]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

the admin costs are nothing...in fact as most lefties say the admin costs of medicare/ciad are less than 10%


the fact is medicine costs

look at the hospitals...they spend over 400,000 a MONTH just on electric....thats nearly 5 million a year...just to power the building

yep and look at medicare/ciad..they pay crap to the doctors..so low that doctors are shying away from care/caid

Medicare is more like 80-20. Americans pay full retail price for drugs. Smarter groups and nations negotiate price, we, on the other hand, bend over and we all know why, don't we?

[Jaggy001]

Originally Posted by Katiana

The admin costs of medicare/medicaid are low, but the admin costs of pvt insurance are high, 30% by some estimates, and that's before profits are added in.

You're have an obsession with hospitals' power bills. I can assure you that's nothing compared to their nursing budgets.

I am not talking about medicare/medicaid but the costs of the providers ... hospitals, doctors, etc.. The cost of administering multiple rates set by multiple providers is huge. Much bigger than power bills.

As to private insurance, one wonders how they manage 30% admin costs. Our company is "self-insured" and pays certain insurance companies a fee to administer our plans. That fee costs around 5% of premiums. So where is the other 25% going?

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by Katiana

The admin costs of medicare/medicaid are low, but the admin costs of pvt insurance are high, 30% by some estimates, and that's before profits are added in.

You're have an obsession with hospitals' power bills. I can assure you that's nothing compared to their nursing budgets.

no it not an obsession

it is just showing that COSTS are there

people seem to think that everything is profit...but have no idea of the overhead

its not just the 5 million to electric

but the laundry costs
the custodial costs

the food costs

the equipment cost

the supply costs

the nursing costs

the 'other' staff costs



when your doctor charges you $100...its not $100 going into his pocket

he/she still has to pay rent/lease/mortgage
still has to pay an electric bill
still has to pay for supplies
still has to pay THE NURSE/RECEPTIONIST/RECORDS KEEPER
still has to pay for that mri/xray machine (equipment) etc

and you are not going to lower THOSE costs by the government or insuance



I dont care what the admin cost are of private insurance..I am not advocating for private insurance

I am talking about the low admin costs of medicare/caid..and it STILL is very costly... over 800 BILLION, to cover 70-75 million people....

I want all insurance irradicated...private and government

I dont believe anyone should EXPECT that someone else pays their bills



singlepayer will not control these costs

how are you going to control the cost of medical equipment(mri or xray machines, etc)??????most xray machine are made in denmark

how are you going to control the cost of the rising electric bills the doctors/hospitals are facing????

how are you going to control the rising property tax/rent/mortgage that doctors face?????

how are you going to control the cost of supplies(gauze, plaster, silk, rubber, polystirene( a oil product)?????especially some supplies that arent even american

how are you going to control the cost of people salaries???? a maximum wage???

how they are going to control the employment costs for Doctors, nurses, technicians, hospital food operators, hospital linnon cleaning service, custodial services, medical transcribers........are you going to 'nationalize' every profession that is even remotely connected to medicine????

how are they going to control malpractice INSURANCE COSTS?????

dont you get it... medicine (like anyother SERVICE) costs money,,(,money that our government doesnt have)

why are you not complaining that housing costs have quadrupled in the last 30 years......why are you not complaining that the cost of automobiles has increase 10 times (dec-rupled(???)) (ie a mid size car cost $2500 in 1973.....a mid size car now is over 25,000)????????????????????????????????

I asked a simple question.....HOW are you going to control costs OF MEDICINE, not INSURANCE..........because you CANT...and it will get worse and worse as inflation devalues our dollar

[Katarina Witt]

jaggy001: There's adminstration all the way up the chain. Your company pays 5% to a company to do the other 30%.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

no it not an obsession

it is just showing that COSTS are there

people seem to think that everything is profit...but have no idea of the overhead

its not just the 5 million to electric

but the laundry costs
the custodial costs

the food costs

the equipment cost

the supply costs

the nursing costs

the 'other' staff costs



when your doctor charges you $100...its not $100 going into his pocket

he/she still has to pay rent/lease/mortgage
still has to pay an electric bill
still has to pay for supplies
still has to pay THE NURSE/RECEPTIONIST/RECORDS KEEPER
still has to pay for that mri/xray machine (equipment) etc

and you are not going to lower THOSE costs by the government or insuance



I dont care what the admin cost are of private insurance..I am not advocating for private insurance

I am talking about the low admin costs of medicare/caid..and it STILL is very costly... over 800 BILLION, to cover 70-75 million people....

I want all insurance irradicated...private and government

I dont believe anyone should EXPECT that someone else pays their bills

I think almost everyone is aware that, as in any other business enterprise, the price the consumer pays is not the owner's profit. It's the same in non-profits, too, e.g. Kaiser. However, under the present system, our office has two people who do nothing but work with insurance. Also, our front desk staff has to do a lot of admin work with the various insurances. The admin stuff is part of everyone's job.

Having insurance is a way to spread the cost among a lot of people. I don't understand why you have a problem with that.

[jackmccullough]

The thesis of the original post in this thread was that the OP's father's case of denial of one proposed course of treatment demostrates the evils of a "government-run" health care system.

I'm sure I'm not the only person who commented by responding to the specifics, suggesting that there is a way to challenge the decision and possibly get it reversed, and pointing out that denials of coverage are by no means unique to publicly funded medical payment systems.

I'd be interested in whether the original poster has followed up on any of the suggestions. I know that there has been no real response to our points that what has happened here is not unique to, or the necessary outcome of, a publicly financed system.

[EinsteinsGhost]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

I am talking about the low admin costs of medicare/caid..and it STILL is very costly... over 800 BILLION, to cover 70-75 million people....

The 2011 budget included a projected spending of $764B for Medicare/Medicaid. The revenue received for it via Medicare payroll taxes was $187B. In other words, the net spending (deficit) on these programs was $577 Billion, or about 15% of the total budget. I would say that it shouldn't be too difficult to reduce the costs by identifying and enforcing efficiencies. Much of bloated expenditure in the US is also a courtesy of public-private partnerships where the former of the two couldn't care less about cost reductions and the latter couldn't care less about anything else but maximizing profits.

Another major factor is propping up of the costs by insurance companies to prevent people from paying cash and bypassing them. It has also been noted that physicians and facilities often risk defying rules set by insurance companies who direct most of their clients. This relegates the idea of eliminating insurance altogether as just that... an idea. People (politicians) would be paid to oppose it, and the stupid in the populace led to believe that anything that doesn't promote private corporations is socialism.

To put that in perspective, Medicaid is used by 58 million people with the following demographic/distribution:
Children: 50% (29 million) enrollees, 20% of Medicaid spending
Low income adults: 25% (15 million), 12% of Medicaid spending
Elderly/Disabled also on Medicare: 25% (14 million), 68% of Medicaid spending

Medicaid spending is about $280B. Coincidentally, England's NHS covers about that many people, and costs about that much and all of it is actually paid for via taxes as opposed to here where it is simply a deficit despite all the taxes we do pay.

Going back to the government programs (Medicare/Medicaid/CHIP/VA etc), administrative costs are a fraction of the spending.

I want all insurance irradicated...private and government

I dont believe anyone should EXPECT that someone else pays their bills

Anytime you have "insurance", you expect someone else to pay. And when they don't have insurance, you still pay for their expense.