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We can agree that inhumane conditions are great for convicted criminals (pot possession, for example).
But innocent men should not be treated like this in America.
The soul of America these days is straight out of the dark ages.
um yea.... I missed that part about definitive ban on cruel and unusual punishment pre-trial.
But I have no doubt the alleged "innocent until proven guilty" is just a matter of time. Our law enforcement have come a long way since the early 30's and I'm willing to bet without hesitation that every one of those people in those jails belong in prison, and sooner or later they will get their conviction, and health insurance and 3 square meals and education and physical therapy and exercise, so a month or two in the hold for the "unmanageable" accused is not going to make me lose any sleep.
it doesn't, it's more an issue of not creating a self-fulfilling prophecy
they shouldn't feel like they're living it up at a 5-star hotel, but they shouldn't be cooped up like cattle or prisoners in the gulag. our ****ty prisons are a huge part of the recidivism problem in the US today, and is it surprising at all? you shove these people in a concrete room for a few years, where all they do is menial labor and talking to other prisoners, then once they're out they find it hard to get a job because they have no skills or education.
you tell a person they're dirt for long enough, they start to believe it.
Um I'm pretty sure that education is made available to them. You hear it all the time when someone comes up for parole "they even completed their GED"!! What a great guy!!
Remember, this isn't prison. Technically these men are innocent.
Land of the Free...
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10
Do you know the difference between a jail and a prison?
What makes you think they're innocent? Do you know the difference between jail and prison? Maybe it's different in Florida, but in WA the vast majority of people in jail have been convicted. Very few have been arrested and are waiting on trial. People don't go to prison unless they've got a sentence longer than 1 year.
Remember, this isn't prison. Technically these men are innocent.
Land of the Free...
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10
It is shocking how little many posters in this thread know about the U.S. Constitution.
NO MAN IS A CONVICTED CRIMINAL UNTIL JUDGED SO BY A JURY OF HIS PEERS.
THESE "CRIMINALS" HAVE NOT EVEN GONE TO TRIAL.
PICK UP A BASIC CIVIL LIBERTIES TEXTBOOK AND START READING.
Why do you assume they haven't gone to trial? Nothing in the article says they're innocent, if anything the article focus on people who clearly have been convicted, and probably shouldn't ever be allowed out.
What makes you think they're innocent? Do you know the difference between jail and prison? Maybe it's different in Florida, but in WA the vast majority of people in jail have been convicted. Very few have been arrested and are waiting on trial. People don't go to prison unless they've got a sentence longer than 1 year.
I'm sure that varies from state to state. Don't quote me on this, but I've read that some states only house misdemeanor offenders in jails, which does fit in with the "under one year" incarceration.
So, does this mean that you think that it is acceptable to mistreat someone guilty of a misdemeanor? Honestly, I would rather see them doing acts of restitution in many cases.
it doesn't, it's more an issue of not creating a self-fulfilling prophecy
they shouldn't feel like they're living it up at a 5-star hotel, but they shouldn't be cooped up like cattle or prisoners in the gulag. our ****ty prisons are a huge part of the recidivism problem in the US today, and is it surprising at all? you shove these people in a concrete room for a few years, where all they do is menial labor and talking to other prisoners, then once they're out they find it hard to get a job because they have no skills or education.
you tell a person they're dirt for long enough, they start to believe it.
If you tell criminals that they're a victim of society one time they don't start to believe it- they instantly believe it. Look at the pics of those guys in the article. I'm sure that the guy with the tattoo on his forehead who was flashing gang sings is innocent as a babe in the woods.
They should be told that they're dirt. They need to face reality.
Why do you assume they haven't gone to trial? Nothing in the article says they're innocent, if anything the article focus on people who clearly have been convicted, and probably shouldn't ever be allowed out.
Most of these inmates are on remand - awaiting bail or being held until their trial dates - usually for fairly minor offences. In America, jails are distinct from prisons in that they hold people who are pre-trial and therefore unconvicted.
But that's O.K.
I think most of the people on this thread think its o.k. to treat non-convicted people like animals because their great-grandfathers actually owned people like this.
The more things change...the more things stay the same...
I think most of the people on this thread think its o.k. to treat non-convicted people like animals because their great-grandfathers actually owned people like this.
The more things change...the more things stay the same...
I don't think that my great grandfather owned any violent criminal gang members but you raise an interesting point. I'll have to check my family history to see if he did.
Do you know what it takes to get locked up? You'd be hard pressed to find a first offender in that bunch.
While on a ship in the navy, we saw a news story on the requirements for prison cells like how many prisoners per cubic feet. Some one should pass those standards onto the US Navy cause our living conditions were much more confining.
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