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Originally Posted by reconmark
The person is not being punished for what they were thinking, they are punished because their hate filled thoughts are manifested into actual harm, and that harm is only meant to cause fear, death, intimidation, based on one's race.
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Huh? They are not punished for thinking but for hate filled thoughts.
they are punished because their hate filled thoughts are manifested into actual harm,
also correct, it isnt the law itself that is discriminatory, but rather the way the law is applied. for instance if a white person kills a black person, while shouting racial epithets, the white person is also charged with a hate crime. reverse the situation though, a white person is killed by a black person who is shouting racial epithets, and the black person rarely if ever is charged with a hate crime.
in the end hate crime legislation is trying to punish people for their thoughts.
Haha. If this is true, please explain to me why blacks are more likely to be prosecuted with hate-crime enhancements than whites.
The US is about 12% black, but roughly 20% of people prosecuted with hate crime enhancements are black.
The US is about 73% white, but roughly 62% of people prosecuted with hate crime enhancements are white.
Think of it this way: A hate crime has two components, the physical act of violence and the motivation of race or other hatred. So a hate crime law punishes for two components, each being an element of a crime. If someone clobbers me because they don't like my skin color they get punished for both hating my skin color and for clobbering me. So: if you can be punished only for the crime of clobbering me, can you also be punished solely for the 'crime' of not liking my skin color? This criminalizes hatred, which is only a state of mind and hence criminalizes mere thought. Not cool.
As I listed earlier, Mens rea and intent are the elements needed for any criminal indictment.
What you are arguing is not solely the elements of hate crime but criminal law itself!!!
I'll also point out that the US Supreme Court has ruled (unanimously) that penalty-enhancement hate crime statutes are constitutional and that they don't conflict with free speech rights because they do not punish freedom of expression but instead simply let courts consider motive when sentencing a criminal for conduct.
Funny enough, this case - Wisconsin v. Mitchell - was about a bunch of black guys who, after watching Mississippi Burning, decided to go beat up "whitey". They ended up beating a randomly chosen 14 year old white boy into a coma and were sentenced more harshly under hate crime enhancement laws.
How long have you lived in this country????...it seems you and the other guy from Australia like nothing better than telling Americans and black people in particular how backwards this country is for passing laws such as the Civil Rights Act, how not allowing discrimination based on race infringes on your right, etc.
I'm sorry but your lack of the history of this country and the nuance of race relations are really telling. History and society in this country have never been black or white, cut and dried.
You have a right to your view point, but it's based on a lack of knowledge of the issue you want to comment on.
A hate crime is a hate crime because the motivating factor in committing the crime was "race"!!!...had the victim not been a certain color or race then they would not have become a victim.
You not understanding American history in this particular area, limits your knowledge of the historical perspective of hate crime.
Again, how long have you lived in this country???
Been in the states 27 years, not sure how that's relevant unless you're implying that since I am an immigrant, I can't comprehend hate crime laws. That's what I noticed about most of you Neo Progs, you always seem to think that immigrants and minorities (which I am a member of both) are helpless and can't function in society like white people and we need government help. That's a very insulting and condescending view that you have of us.
Scenario A: a black guy kills a Mexican guy because he is Mexican and gets life in prison, no parole because it is a hate crime.
Scenario B: A black guy kills another black guy, gets 35-live possible parole in 20 years.
Outcome: discrimination. The black guy that was murdered has been deemed "less than" the Mexican guy that was murdered, simply based on race, despite the fact that the crimes were identical.
It was like that long before there were a hate crime laws. Black life meant nothing in the justice system.
Blacks who killed whites (or who were convicted of such) = death penalty.
Blacks who killed blacks = life in prison.
Whites who killed blacks = often, nothing at all.
That said, it is important that we do have hate crime laws.
I believe the difference is intent. If you intend to inflict pain or suffering on someone because of their race, then that constitutes a hate crime. If its just to hurt them individually, then its not a hate crime.
Right, and my question is why is that relevant?
Say an Asian guy kills a Mexican guy because he hates Mexicans, and that same Asian guy has a twin brother who killed an Asian woman, with the exact same weapon and the exact same way that his twin killed the Mexican guy. Well the first brother is going to get a longer sentence despite the fact that the crimes were identical. So now you have marginalized the Asian womans life, and you have to tell her family that she wasn't as worthy as the Mexican guy due solely to race. That is discrimination, plain and simple.
It was like that long before there were a hate crime laws. Black life meant nothing in the justice system.
Blacks who killed whites (or who were convicted of such) = death penalty.
Blacks who killed blacks = life in prison.
Whites who killed blacks = often, nothing at all.
That said, it is important that we do have hate crime laws.
The equation isn't balanced until the pendulum stops.
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