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Originally Posted by Pennsylvanian1;19359644
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[B
Kinsey has pretty much been completely discredited as having any real place in the history of scientific studies. This Zoologist, somehow became a self proclaimed 'sexologist' and made his mark after conducting interviews with various individuals, homosexuals, heterosexuals and child molesters. I read a biography a number of years ago about his life and my conclusion was that this was a very sick individual. I don't think it's necessary to expound, but I can locate the biography if necessary. [/b]
... Did you read the report? For me it read more like a high school essay, than the product of medical science. It did reference the study of monozygotic twins, assumably referring to the refuted Twin studies of Bailey and Pillard.
Where did you get the idea that Kinsey's work has been "completely discredited"?
From a biography? I wonder who the author of that "biography" was? I'm betting it was Judith Reisman? If so, you might want to check out her history and uhhhh...."credentials". http://newgon.com/wiki/Judith_Reisman.
And where did you get the idea that Bailey and Pillard's twin studies had been "refuted"? How were the studies flawed? Or are you just repeating what some religiously biased non-science author had to say?
How many twin studies do you think have been conducted?
I want to add that I am aware that I am, in fact, at a disadvantage, with regard to locating opposing data/reports, but this of course is due to an extremely sexually charged social climate which chooses rather to view such issues like child molestation, and homosexuality, as more of a positive sexual revolution, than perversion. We can thank individuals like Hugh Hefner and Alfred Kinsey for that, both of whom are, even today, applauded for their contributions.
Yes, you ARE at a disadvantage, but not because of political correctness or "social climate". It's because there is no evidence to support your opinions. And there is evidence which refutes your opinions.
Have a look at Warren Throckmorton's review of the Wilson and Widon 2009 study of 908 adults who were sexually abused as children and follows them 30 years later. This refutes your "politically correct" claim I believe. It also refutes your opinion that homosexuality is caused by child sexual abuse.
Where in heaven's name did you get the bizarre idea that child molestation is considered a "positive sexual revolution"? That's a ridiculous and particularly vile strawman. And what does homosexuality have to do with child molestation? Especially since the vast majority of child molestors (with an adult sexual orientation) are heterosexual men.
So you think homosexuality is a "perversion"? Well I guess we can't expect any honest, unprejudiced views from you then can we?
Please show me somewhere other than NAMBLA where child molestation is viewed in a positive light.
Hmmmm.... the Bible?
Numbers 31:17-18 "Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."
Numbers 31:17-18 "Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennsylvanian1
I want to add that I am aware that I am, in fact, at a disadvantage, with regard to locating opposing data/reports, but this of course is due to an extremely sexually charged social climate which chooses rather to view such issues like child molestation, and homosexuality, as more of a positive sexual revolution, than perversion. We can thank individuals like Hugh Hefner and Alfred Kinsey for that, both of whom are, even today, applauded for their contributions.
I'm trying to see if Pennsylvanian can point to anywhere in the scientific or medical world where research has been done to put child molestation in a positive light, or even to neutralize child molestation.
I'm trying to see if Pennsylvanian can point to anywhere in the scientific or medical world where research has been done to put child molestation in a positive light, or even to neutralize child molestation.
Please show me somewhere other than NAMBLA where child molestation is viewed in a positive light.
I'm glad you asked.
Alfred Kinsey, 'the zoologist', performed perverted sexual research in his own home, on over 300 children, ranging in ages from 5 months to 14 years of age. The researcher would bring the children to orgasm using different techniques for stimulation. Some of the responses in the infants, such as convulsing and crying, were interpreted by Kinsey as a recordable response to this stimulation. This information is widely known and is easily accessible. This is also one of the champions for the advancement of homosexual research.
Kinsey's so-called research is now recognized by the University of Indiana, who has devoted a branch of its organization to further studies of human sexuality. He is hailed by the University of Indiana as a pioneer in the field of human sexuality, and the branch was named in his honor.
"The Kinsey Institute at Indiana University works towards advancing sexual health and knowledge worldwide. For over 60 years, the institute has been a trusted source for investigating and informing the world about critical issues in sex, gender and reproduction."
Thanks for asking!
Last edited by Pennsylvanian1; 05-31-2011 at 07:17 AM..
Alfred Kinsey, 'the zoologist', Some of the responses in the infants, such as convulsing and crying, were interpreted by Kinsey as a recordable response to this stimulation. This information is widely known and is easily accessible. This is also one of the champions for the advancement of homosexual research.
Kinsey's so-called research is now recognized by the University of Indiana, who has devoted a branch of its organization to further studies of human sexuality. He is hailed by the University of Indiana as a pioneer in the field of human sexuality, and the branch was named in his honor.
"The Kinsey Institute at Indiana University works towards advancing sexual health and knowledge worldwide. For over 60 years, the institute has been a trusted source for investigating and informing the world about critical issues in sex, gender and reproduction."
Thanks for askinN!
You still didn't answer Nim's question.
Sounds like you've been reading Judith Reisman - or conservative religious-based sites who love to quote her extremely flawed and obsessive views on Kinsey or homosexuality.
This would be a cause of great concern if it were true. Kinsey was not a pedophile in any shape or form. He did not carry out experiments on children; he did not hire, collaborate, or persuade people to carry out experiments on children.
How do you expect to be taken seriously when you come up with this rubbish?
Not so fast. I can see that I've struck a nerve by the passion in your response. Especially regarding Judith Reisman. Because of the way you responded, using words like, hysterical, rubbish, and obsessive, 'me thinks you protest too much'. I haven't read her articles, but I did find out that she filed a law suit against the Indiana Institute for their connection to Kinsey's research, finding it offensive.
I thought perhaps she was another NARTH representative or was a member of a religious organization, but the facts are to the contrary. She has waged an all out war against this man Kinsey, or at least against his reputation and standing. As it appears, she's very well credentialed and respected. She's does not argue on the basis of religion, though she may be sought after by members of religious organizations for her input and research. Let people make up there own minds.
You are correct in your statement that Kinsey apparently did not perform the research in a hands on fashion, but I'm not so sure your correct about the collaboration aspect. This deserves a little more research. I've ordered a book that I believe came out in 2001 called Sexual Sabotage. Thanks for the tip! I also ordered Kinseys books, Sexual behavior in the human male, and Sexual behavior in the human female. There are excerpts available online but I'd rather have them in their entirety.
I found an interesting article that I almost completely dismissed because it was an interview conducted by a reporter, Brian Fitzpatrick, who is connected to a site which loves to report on conspiracy theories, called World News Net, and it is definately conservative. I also saw a link to one of Judith Reisman's books there. I read the Esther White interview completely.
As it appears, one of the hundreds of molestations, (not personally performed by Kinsey), was actually reported by a victim! I also found that the Kinsey Institute did not try to trivialize the woman's claim of having been molested by her father, so the fact that the molestation occurred, was not in question, but what attachment, if any, was there to Alfred Kinsey? Obviously the Kinsey Institute at the University of Indiana believes there was none, which agrees with your position. I'm not that interested in Reisman's law suit, but I did find the woman's story compelling and believable. For the interview, she went under the name Esther White. You have to scroll down a bit before seeing a picture of her and getting to the beginning of her story.
She believed that her father was one of many who received money to produce data for Kinsey's research. It was even believed that some of the child molesters he interviewed who admittedly molested hundreds of children, were secretly in his employ. Esther White was very young when everything happened, but she does recall the molestation, and seeing a questionnaire that her father would answer from time to time, one of the statements on the questionnaire read 'timed orgasm'. Isn't that something that a man with no prior history of Father/daughter molestation, would suddenly develop this organized practice? I'll let readers decide for themselves. I'm just looking forward to what I'll learn from the 3 books I've ordered, but I can tell you now, the more excerpts I find from Kinseys research, the more I'm convinced of his lunacy, and of the fact that the heads of the Kinsey Institute should hang their heads in shame.
To be honest, I think I have heard before, even from people who believe homosexuality is natural, that Kinsey conducted some pretty whacko experiments. I do also think it's possible for a researcher to be dead on in one area and dead wrong in another. I'm reluctant to do research on Kinsey because I feel like it will all be biased one way or another, but there have been tons of studies done by people other than Kinsey that show that homosexuality is natural and not a result of sexual perversion or sexual trauma.
The problem with grouping homosexuality and child molestation into one phenomenon is that the two occur separately from each other all the time. Most people who have been molested are straight because most people are straight. And even if there were a higher rate of people with histories of sexual abuse among gays, it would be hard to know if it was because they were "different" or if the abuse made them gay since a correlation does not imply a causal relationship. For example, I think part of the reason I was abused so much has to do with the fact that I was a tomboy, made fun of and bullied a lot, so I had very low self-confidence and was therefore an easy target. I was much more likely to stay quiet about it than a child who had been raised to speak their mind.
Even if Kinsey's research is sort of out there, there is just so much other research that points to homosexuality being at the very least partially genetic. And even if it was environmental, there are no detrimental psychological affects from consensual same-sex sexual activity. Child sexual abuse has been shown time and time again to have adverse psychological effects. Post-traumatic Stress Disorder occurs in about 97% of all childhood sexual abuse victims, compared to about 20% among war veterans. However there is no such correlation between PTSD and being gay, which shows that there is clearly a big difference between childhood molestation and homosexuality. The two really do not equate and cannot be considered under one umbrella of sexual perversion.
Not so fast. I can see that I've struck a nerve by the passion in your response. Especially regarding Judith Reisman. Because of the way you responded, using words like, hysterical, rubbish, and obsessive, 'me thinks you protest too much'. I haven't read her articles, but I did find out that she filed a law suit against the Indiana Institute for their connection to Kinsey's research, finding it offensive.
I thought perhaps she was another NARTH representative or was a member of a religious organization, but the facts are to the contrary. She has waged an all out war against this man Kinsey, or at least against his reputation and standing. As it appears, she's very well credentialed and respected. She's does not argue on the basis of religion, though she may be sought after by members of religious organizations for her input and research. Let people make up there own minds.
You are correct in your statement that Kinsey apparently did not perform the research in a hands on fashion, but I'm not so sure your correct about the collaboration aspect. This deserves a little more research. I've ordered a book that I believe came out in 2001 called Sexual Sabotage. Thanks for the tip! I also ordered Kinseys books, Sexual behavior in the human male, and Sexual behavior in the human female. There are excerpts available online but I'd rather have them in their entirety.
I found an interesting article that I almost completely dismissed because it was an interview conducted by a reporter, Brian Fitzpatrick, who is connected to a site which loves to report on conspiracy theories, called World News Net, and it is definately conservative. I also saw a link to one of Judith Reisman's books there. I read the Esther White interview completely.
As it appears, one of the hundreds of molestations, (not personally performed by Kinsey), was actually reported by a victim! I also found that the Kinsey Institute did not try to trivialize the woman's claim of having been molested by her father, so the fact that the molestation occurred, was not in question, but what attachment, if any, was there to Alfred Kinsey? Obviously the Kinsey Institute at the University of Indiana believes there was none, which agrees with your position. I'm not that interested in Reisman's law suit, but I did find the woman's story compelling and believable. For the interview, she went under the name Esther White. You have to scroll down a bit before seeing a picture of her and getting to the beginning of her story.
She believed that her father was one of many who received money to produce data for Kinsey's research. It was even believed that some of the child molesters he interviewed who admittedly molested hundreds of children, were secretly in his employ. Esther White was very young when everything happened, but she does recall the molestation, and seeing a questionnaire that her father would answer from time to time, one of the statements on the questionnaire read 'timed orgasm'. Isn't that something that a man with no prior history of Father/daughter molestation, would suddenly develop this organized practice? I'll let readers decide for themselves. I'm just looking forward to what I'll learn from the 3 books I've ordered, but I can tell you now, the more excerpts I find from Kinseys research, the more I'm convinced of his lunacy, and of the fact that the heads of the Kinsey Institute should hang their heads in shame.
I'm not sure where you get the idea that Judith Reisman is "well credentialled". Her own website?
She is an extreme, conservative, fear and propaganda merchant with no science or medical qualifications. She is published by World Nut Daily. She has written for NARTH. And she thinks homosexuals are pedophiles who are out to recruit children into homosexuality. She also equates homosexuals to Nazis.
I'd say she is not a reliable source on anything.
But this is off topic.
Last edited by Ceist; 06-01-2011 at 06:27 AM..
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If so, you might want to check out her history and uhhhh...."credentials". 
