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Old 05-26-2011, 04:20 PM
 
315 posts, read 366,687 times
Reputation: 149

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Quote:
Originally Posted by maja View Post
But I bet your school didn't bring in a "Religious Trainer," who told you things like, "You may have been born Muslim; but in your heart you know you're really Christian."
Actually we had all kinds of rallies and events where they brought in people from different professions, religions, disabilities...adding gender identity to that is just another step in the right direction.
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Old 05-26-2011, 04:43 PM
 
19,023 posts, read 25,963,815 times
Reputation: 7365
So when are weapons training in grade school be the norm, where kids are taught safe weapons handling? I wonder how that would be if it were mandatory.
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Old 05-26-2011, 04:46 PM
 
Location: London, U.K.
3,006 posts, read 3,870,546 times
Reputation: 1750
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alltheusernamesaretaken View Post
Medical science states that a male has an XY chromosome.
It states that a female has two X chromosomes.

A person with an XY chromosome is a male human being, regardless of how they alter their body with surgery/hormones. Same for a female having two X chromosomes.

I understand that there are individuals with a mental condition which makes them believe they were born the wrong sex. I cannot imagine how it must be to go through life in such a way, and I would not tolerate bullying of those people or any person, regardless of mental state or whatnot.

However, it is indeed an abnormal situation in my eyes and I would not encourage my children nor anyone else's children to accept it as "normal." My children would in no way be allowed to bully that individual, and I encourage respecting their feelings and situation. But the gov't cannot legislate that our family accepts it as "normal."
For the gazillionth time i'm posting this yet again:


There are a number - over a hundred - of medical conditions we call "Intersex". That is, neither wholly male, nor wholly female.
This is not a philosophical issue, or a religious issue, it's a biological issue, capable of being examined and proven by objective tests.

Most - 98.3% in fact - people are normally male, or normally female. No doubts, no ambiguities. And of the 1.7% who are Intersexed, most are asymptomatic, and never know - unless they go to a fertility clinic, or have a gene test taken for health reasons. You could be one of them.

But for 1 in 1000 - yes, that common - it's not asymptomatic at all.

AIS - androgen insensitivity syndrome. This feminises a masculine body. There are degrees - partial AIS 1 leads to a male body with hypogonadism, undeveloped genitalia, and probably some other feminisation too. Complete AIS (CAIS) results in a female body. Miss Teen America 1991 had CAIS. Women with CAIS universally have a female gender identity - more on that later.

CAH - congenital adrenal hyperplasia. This masculinises a feminine body. Again, there are degrees. Only 1 in 10 have a male gender identity, despite somewhat masculinised genitalia.

Kleinfelter - usually 47xxy rather than 46xy (male) or 46xx (female), though 48xxyy etc and combinations are also possible. These people usually look male, with male gender identities. But some don't, and some have even given birth.

Turner syndrome - 45x - has been explained before.

Swyer sundrome - 46xy, but with a complete female reproductive system, except for the gonads. They can give birth, but only as surrogate mothers.

There are 46xy women who have given birth in the normal way. There are 46xx men who have fathered children. There are mosaics, people with both 46xx and 46xy chromosomes in different parts of their bodies. Or 45x/46xy, or 47xxy/46xx, or 47xxy/46xy, and so on.

It gets worse though. It has been common medical practice to surgically alter newborn babies with unusual genitalia so they look "normal". This means that some normal baby boys whose male organ was deemed too small were castrated, and surgically altered to look female. Many only were told later in life - usually after they'd seen a psychiatrist because they thought they were transsexual. They looked female, but their gender identity was always male.

But that's not all. There are several rare conditions, such as 5ARD and 17BHDD that cause a natural sex change. Those born with 5ARD or 17BHDD look like little girls, regardless of their chromosomes. But half masculinise at puberty, the genitals change shape, and some can even father children. For 2/3 of them, this is a wonderful relief, gender identity is usually male. But for the rest, it's a descent into nightmare, and a medical emergency.

OK, that's Intersex - but what about Transsexuality? Isn't that just a mental illness, curable with therapy or drugs or something?

No. Transsexuality is a form of Intersex, one where the brain, rather than other parts of the body, is affected. In fact, other parts of the body are often affected too, though the only area of the brain that matters is the lymbic nucleus, the parts that deal with emotions, instincts, body map, ovulation and so on.

This has been known since 1996, as the result of autopsies on the brains of transsexual people. We've known that male and female brains differ structurally for even longer, but the results from 1996 show that transsexuals have cross-gendered brains, just as some intersexed people have cross-gendered genitalia or chromosomes. We can now use Functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging (fMRI) to show this on people who aren't dead. Which is a distinct advantage to the people concerned.

See:
Zhou JN, Hofman MA, Gooren LJ, Swaab DF. A sex difference in the human brain and its relation to transsexuality. Nature (1995) 378:68–70. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal.../378068a0.html

Kruijver FP, Zhou JN, Pool CW, Hofman MA, Gooren LJ, Swaab DF. Male–to–female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus. J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2000) 85:2034–2041.
Male-to-Female Transsexuals Have Female Neuron Numbers in a Limbic Nucleus -- Kruijver et al. 85 (5): 2034 -- Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism

And many other papers on the subject.
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Old 05-26-2011, 04:48 PM
 
315 posts, read 366,687 times
Reputation: 149
Heck, I took archery in middle school.

But is the safe handling of weapons going to help with anti-bullying? And how are you going to get around that zero-tolerance stuff?
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Old 05-26-2011, 05:09 PM
 
2,208 posts, read 1,835,880 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
The far left's attempts to mainstream and normalize that which is abnormal. Is anyone really suprised?
Homosexuality is not abnormal. What is actually abnormal is refuting concrete evidence with mysticism. Sorry, but your belief system is based on antiquated pre-scientific ideals that have no relevance to modern biology and psychology.
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Old 05-26-2011, 05:14 PM
 
3,681 posts, read 6,274,075 times
Reputation: 1516
Quote:
Originally Posted by archineer View Post
For the gazillionth time i'm posting this yet again:


There are a number - over a hundred - of medical conditions we call "Intersex". That is, neither wholly male, nor wholly female.
This is not a philosophical issue, or a religious issue, it's a biological issue, capable of being examined and proven by objective tests.

Most - 98.3% in fact - people are normally male, or normally female. No doubts, no ambiguities. And of the 1.7% who are Intersexed, most are asymptomatic, and never know - unless they go to a fertility clinic, or have a gene test taken for health reasons. You could be one of them.

But for 1 in 1000 - yes, that common - it's not asymptomatic at all.

AIS - androgen insensitivity syndrome. This feminises a masculine body. There are degrees - partial AIS 1 leads to a male body with hypogonadism, undeveloped genitalia, and probably some other feminisation too. Complete AIS (CAIS) results in a female body. Miss Teen America 1991 had CAIS. Women with CAIS universally have a female gender identity - more on that later.

CAH - congenital adrenal hyperplasia. This masculinises a feminine body. Again, there are degrees. Only 1 in 10 have a male gender identity, despite somewhat masculinised genitalia.

Kleinfelter - usually 47xxy rather than 46xy (male) or 46xx (female), though 48xxyy etc and combinations are also possible. These people usually look male, with male gender identities. But some don't, and some have even given birth.

Turner syndrome - 45x - has been explained before.

Swyer sundrome - 46xy, but with a complete female reproductive system, except for the gonads. They can give birth, but only as surrogate mothers.

There are 46xy women who have given birth in the normal way. There are 46xx men who have fathered children. There are mosaics, people with both 46xx and 46xy chromosomes in different parts of their bodies. Or 45x/46xy, or 47xxy/46xx, or 47xxy/46xy, and so on.

It gets worse though. It has been common medical practice to surgically alter newborn babies with unusual genitalia so they look "normal". This means that some normal baby boys whose male organ was deemed too small were castrated, and surgically altered to look female. Many only were told later in life - usually after they'd seen a psychiatrist because they thought they were transsexual. They looked female, but their gender identity was always male.

But that's not all. There are several rare conditions, such as 5ARD and 17BHDD that cause a natural sex change. Those born with 5ARD or 17BHDD look like little girls, regardless of their chromosomes. But half masculinise at puberty, the genitals change shape, and some can even father children. For 2/3 of them, this is a wonderful relief, gender identity is usually male. But for the rest, it's a descent into nightmare, and a medical emergency.

OK, that's Intersex - but what about Transsexuality? Isn't that just a mental illness, curable with therapy or drugs or something?

No. Transsexuality is a form of Intersex, one where the brain, rather than other parts of the body, is affected. In fact, other parts of the body are often affected too, though the only area of the brain that matters is the lymbic nucleus, the parts that deal with emotions, instincts, body map, ovulation and so on.

This has been known since 1996, as the result of autopsies on the brains of transsexual people. We've known that male and female brains differ structurally for even longer, but the results from 1996 show that transsexuals have cross-gendered brains, just as some intersexed people have cross-gendered genitalia or chromosomes. We can now use Functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging (fMRI) to show this on people who aren't dead. Which is a distinct advantage to the people concerned.

See:
Zhou JN, Hofman MA, Gooren LJ, Swaab DF. A sex difference in the human brain and its relation to transsexuality. Nature (1995) 378:68–70. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal.../378068a0.html

Kruijver FP, Zhou JN, Pool CW, Hofman MA, Gooren LJ, Swaab DF. Male–to–female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus. J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2000) 85:2034–2041.
Male-to-Female Transsexuals Have Female Neuron Numbers in a Limbic Nucleus -- Kruijver et al. 85 (5): 2034 -- Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism

And many other papers on the subject.
So, do they wait until first grade to teach the above?
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Old 05-26-2011, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,472,986 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by maja View Post
So, do they wait until first grade to teach the above?
They shouldn't..got to wait til the kids learn percentages and enough science to know what a gene is.

But what the heck..start it at 4 or 5 years old. Tell them what you want to tell them and they WILL believe it.
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Old 05-26-2011, 05:19 PM
 
2,208 posts, read 1,835,880 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alltheusernamesaretaken View Post
Medical science states that a male has an XY chromosome.
It states that a female has two X chromosomes.

A person with an XY chromosome is a male human being, regardless of how they alter their body with surgery/hormones. Same for a female having two X chromosomes.

I understand that there are individuals with a mental condition which makes them believe they were born the wrong sex. I cannot imagine how it must be to go through life in such a way, and I would not tolerate bullying of those people or any person, regardless of mental state or whatnot.

However, it is indeed an abnormal situation in my eyes and I would not encourage my children nor anyone else's children to accept it as "normal." My children would in no way be allowed to bully that individual, and I encourage respecting their feelings and situation. But the gov't cannot legislate that our family accepts it as "normal."
HAHAHAHAHAHA

Klienfelter's syndrome (XXY), males that are double X. Turner's syndrome (XO), females with an unpaired X. Hermaphrodites. The list goes on...

The majority of females have XX, as the majority of males have XY. However, that's not always the case.

There is a range of normality. If it is found in nature, it may be a minority, but still considered normal.

If every thing were to fit in a bell curve, a significant proportion would lie outside the median marker. Yet, we still consider deviations from the plurality normal.

I refrain from the term abnormal is because it holds a certain connotation of inferiority and even deviant behavior (as illustrated several times in this thread).
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Old 05-26-2011, 05:22 PM
 
2,208 posts, read 1,835,880 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by maja View Post
So, do they wait until first grade to teach the above?
See, that's where we differ. I would want my kids to get a well rounded education in knowing reality as well as academics. The goal is that they are able to make well informed decisions, not be blinded by bias and hatred.
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Old 05-26-2011, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,472,986 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by calibro1 View Post
See, that's where we differ. I would want my kids to get a well rounded education in knowing reality as well as academics. The goal is that they are able to make well informed decisions, not be blinded by bias and hatred.
Cognitive development is very complex. A 5 year old should not be expected to understand what a 16 year old does and make "well informed decisions".
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