What Caused The Shrinkage of America's Middle Class? (dollar, support, banks)

[cdubs3201]

There wasn't an option for "Government/Corporations". It's our fascist government, not just one or the other. They're the same group.

[Winter_Sucks]

Cold water caused the shrinkage.

[CrownVic95]

Originally Posted by GregW

What caused the shrinkage...?

A well executed plan by the ownership class to transfer as much money as possible from the producers to the manipulators. Or, simply, from us to them.

Greg, you have a gift for expressing this sort of simple truth. This fact is as plain as day to everyone who dares to see the world around them....doesn't make a damn bit of difference whether you lean left or right.

And yet trying to get "conservatives" to question their knee-jerk support of big business, which has become as an institution one of the most powerful enemies that Americans have ever faced, is tougher than keeping flies off s***.

Great post

[Lithium]

There's a plot in this country to transfer even more power and wealth to the people at the top. Bankers, Insurance Companies, the Medical Industry, Corporate CEOs, etc. Trickle down is a scam...

[msdmoney]

In my mind the wealth is being extracted from the middle class slowly but surely through the expansion of credit and debt. Nothing is bought with cash anymore, we've sunk over leveraged ourselves in debt for supposed big returns in the future.

The banks have pushed for all this debt and the government helped incentivize it. All this has done is inflate prices of big purchases pushing them further and further out of reach. But no worries, the banks have new ways to make these purchases "affordable" again and the government is their to "help" everyone borrow through legislation. Meanwhile everyone can count on a guaranteed job when they graduate college no matter what the market conditions are, and on their home values increasing ,on paper, forever, no matter what has happened with median wages.

Want to go to college, get ready to take on massive student loans you'll be paying for years to come. But going to college is equivalent to pursuing your dreams right, and should come at any cost?

Want to buy a home, get ready to sign up for a 30 year loan you'll barely be able to afford the monthly payment on. But owning a home is the American Dream right, the best way for the average person to build wealth? As long as the public continues to obsess over their homes "value" they'll keep supporting doing anything and everything to keep home prices unaffordable (high) at the expense of the younger borrowers, and they will do whatever it takes to "help" future borrowers get into loans to keep the cycle going.

Want a car, get a five year loan and start running in the never ending car payment hamster wheel of trading in cars and buying new ones to keep your monthly payment in perpetuity.

And this is just the "good debt" people don't even think twice about and doesn't even count the "bad debt" accumulated through credit cards.

Note: I think college is essential, home buying can be a great investment, and I do own a car. I'm more concerned about what we've done to the costs of these items.

[The Analog Man]

I vote a combination of all of the above.

[MIKEETC]

Originally Posted by HappyTexan

And the boycotting that went on in America was phenomenal wasn't it ?
The refusal to buy offshored goods at cheaper prices and demand that stores provide "Made in USA" goods was huge. Oh wait..NO IT WASN'T !!

The corporations offshored and the American people spoke, didn't they ?
They couldn't buy enough "plastic pumpkins" from China and were running off to Walmart and loading up on the cheap crap.

WE let it happen. We voted a corrupt government and keep sending them back. We demanded cheap crap and bought it up as soon as it reached the shores. We did this to ourselves. Want to point a finger..well then go stand in front of a mirror..that is who let this happen.

We, indeed...

[floridasandy]

Originally Posted by CrownVic95

Greg, you have a gift for expressing this sort of simple truth. This fact is as plain as day to everyone who dares to see the world around them....doesn't make a damn bit of difference whether you lean left or right.

And yet trying to get "conservatives" to question their knee-jerk support of big business, which has become as an institution one of the most powerful enemies that Americans have ever faced, is tougher than keeping flies off s***.

Great post

and there is the additional issue of getting "liberals" to question their knee-jerk support of big government.

they like the daddy/nanny/mommy state- but the big problem there is that we are now finding out that government isn't a revenue generator, but a revenue "sucker upper".

[CrownVic95]

Originally Posted by floridasandy

and there is the additional issue of getting "liberals" to question their knee-jerk support of big government.

they like the daddy/nanny/mommy state- but the big problem there is that we are now finding out that government isn't a revenue generator, but a revenue "sucker upper".

No question about it.

But we're sure not going to make any progress on that front with more and more Americans in crisis - pushed toward bare minimum survival....losing their homes and forced to go on food stamps in order to feed themselves and their families. In a private sector economy that has abandoned them for short term mega-profits for the elite or the manipulators (thank you, Greg), millions who would have never believed it possible have been forced to seek government assistance.

And that's what makes "conservative" support for the pillaging of this nation even more frustrating. Because it goes way beyond the heartlessness - the morally bankrupt nature of support for exploitation of slave labor overseas and right here at home by the exploitation of illegal immigrants. This support directly fuels and energizes - even legitimizes, to a degree - the far left. The far left being another deadly threat to the future of freedom we thought seemingly just yesterday to be secure.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by walidm

Here ya go.
Here are the statistics to prove it:

Your "statistics" only prove the Middle Class is its own worst enemy.

Originally Posted by walidm

• 83 percent of all U.S. stocks are in the hands of 1 percent of the people.

Not relevant. To the extent that it is, stock transactions require financial maturity, intelligence, knowledge, experience, and an understanding of financial systems and how they work. The majority of Americans can't even explain how their bank works, and you want the to buy stock? That's rich.

Originally Posted by walidm

• 61 percent of Americans "always or usually" live paycheck to paycheck, which was up from 49 percent in 2008 and 43 percent in 2007.

That's a matter of personal choice, and to the extent that it is relevant, it only serves to prove that the majority of Americans make incredibly poor bad financial decisions.

Originally Posted by walidm

• 66 percent of the income growth between 2001 and 2007 went to the top 1% of all Americans.

Yeah, so?

Stupid is as Stupid does. What does the Stupid Class do?

The Stupid Class will purchase a $250,000 McMansion with 0% down at 6.5 % for 30 years and as a consequence of their stupidity, desire for instant self-gratification, and refusal to make a short-term sacrifice for a long term gain, and they will pay $318,000 in interest.

Then in their ignorance, they will whine and cry like small children claiming they were "oppressed" because they voluntarily of their own free will gave $318,000 to top 1% of all Americans.

Then later they will try to sell the McMansion for $650,000 because they have to get at least $568,000 in order to make any semblance of a profit, and when the McMansion is only valued at $450,000 and they're poised to take a huge loss, they will blame everyone but themselves for their ignorance, short-sightedness, lack of intelligence and lack of self-discipline.

Is any of this ringing a bell?

The financially mature and intelligent person would put 25% to 35% down on their $250,000 McMansion and pay only $79,956 in interest. The intelligent person can then sell the home later for $450,000 which is the same price the Stupid Class idiot has his McMansion for sale, and still make a profit of...

....$120,044, while the Stupid Class idiot takes a loss of $118,000.

More than that, the Intelligent Class has then taken the $238,905 in savings in interest from their home purchase and parlay that into $762,505 through investments, and $762,505 is what you would get by just putting the money into a very simple uncomplicated investment vehicle like a pass-book savings account.

So the intelligent person ends up with $120,044 plus $762,505 or $882,549 in profits while the Stupid Class slob has take a loss of $356,905.

And where does the top 1% of all Americans come into play here? They don't. They're on the sidelines watching and laughing at the stupidity.

The Stupid Class isn't smart about their moeny, which is why the Stupid Class doesn't have any money.

Then the intelligent person will retire at 65, use the $120,044 to pay cash out-right for a small cottage or a condo, and then live off of their savings of $762,505 which will give them $38,000 per year for 20 years, plus their Social Security, plus their pension, plus their 401k, plus any other investments they had.

The Stupid Class is so stupid and has so little self-discipline that they will buy a $1,700 Plasma TV and then pay $1,973 in interest because they're stupid, and that $1,793 in interest goes to the top 1% of all Americans.

You got any videos of the top 1% of all Americans holding a gun to the heads of the Stupid Class and forcing them to pay $1,973 interest?

Put it on Useless Tube.

The intelligent person will set a goal of saving $290/month for 6 months and then pay cash for the Plasma TV, which will probably be on sale then for $1,500 so the Intelligent Class will save $2,173 which for them will be a Cruise in the South Atlantic, or holiday at Niagara Falls for a 2nd honeymoon.

The Stupid Class spends their 2nd honeymoon staring at a Plasma TV.

The Stupid Class goes to Kohl's and buys clothes at 15% off then puts it on a credit card and pays interest of 19.8% which not only totally negates the 15% off they would have saved if they had the discipline to pay cash, but they take a net loss of 4.8% and then have the unmitigated gall to claim they are being "repressed" by the top 1% of all Americans.

Originally Posted by walidm

• 36 percent of Americans say that they don't contribute anything to retirement savings.

NetFlix or save for retirement.
NetFlix or save for retirement.
NetFlix or save for retirement.

Oh, the choices in life, it's worse than "paper or plastic."

Originally Posted by walidm

• A staggering 43 percent of Americans have less than $10,000 saved up for retirement.

Fast food and Starsux 37 times per week or save for retirement.
Fast food and Starsux 37 times per week or save for retirement.
Fast food and Starsux 37 times per week or save for retirement.

Originally Posted by walidm

• 24 percent of American workers say that they have postponed their planned retirement age in the past year.

No, they are wearing their retirement around their mid-section.

Originally Posted by walidm

• Over 1.4 million Americans filed for personal bankruptcy in 2009, which represented a 32 percent increase over 2008.

Once again you prove the Stupid Class is Stupid.

Originally Posted by walidm

• For the first time in U.S. history, banks own a greater share of residential housing net worth in the United States than all individual Americans put together.

I don't suppose the foreclosures have anything to do with that.

Originally Posted by walidm

• In 1950, the ratio of the average executive's paycheck to the average worker's paycheck was about 30 to 1. Since the year 2000, that ratio has exploded to between 300 to 500 to one.

And how many foreign plants or facilities did a CEO manage in 1950?

Originally Posted by walidm

• As of 2007, the bottom 80 percent of American households held about 7% of the liquid financial assets.

You can't get rich or even sustain wealth if you're going to throw your money away.

Here's a brilliant idea: trap yourself into perpetual car payments for your entire life for absolutely no reason other than you want to "feel good."

Isn't that just the most brilliant thing?

The cost of "feeling good" is about $100,000.

Originally Posted by walidm

• The bottom 50 percent of income earners in the United States now collectively own less than 1 percent of the nation’s wealth.

So?

You can't get wealthy spending your money on XBox.

Originally Posted by walidm

• In the United States, the average federal worker now earns 60% MORE than the average worker in the private sector.

That's highly misleading.

Originally Posted by walidm

• The top 1 percent of U.S. households own nearly twice as much of America's corporate wealth as they did just 15 years ago.

Yes, because the Stupid Class just handed it to them.

Originally Posted by walidm

• In America today, the average time needed to find a job has risen to a record 35.2 weeks.

Yes, of course. I've explained that ad nauseum.

Originally Posted by walidm

• More than 40 percent of Americans who actually are employed are now working in service jobs, which are often very low paying.

I guess that's because they aren't smart enough to create their own jobs.

Originally Posted by walidm

• or the first time in U.S. history, more than 40 million Americans are on food stamps, and the U.S. Department of Agriculture projects that number will go up to 43 million Americans in 2011.

It already did, but as I pointed out, they are Food Stamps.

What they really are is Cable/Satellite TV Stamps. Or Cell-Phone Stamps. Or Internet Stamps.

There has been an increase in the number of Food Stamps, but not a commensurate decrease in Cable/Satellite TV subscriptions, and wire-less providers are not losing customers.

Originally Posted by walidm

• This is what American workers now must compete against: in China a garment worker makes approximately 86 cents an hour and in Cambodia a garment worker makes approximately 22 cents an hour.

That's classic propaganda and disinformation.

Your average Romanian only makes about $3+/hour, but then you can buy a house for $15,000.

Can you buy a home for $15,000 in the US? I don't think so.

Originally Posted by walidm

• Approximately 21 percent of all children in the United States are living below the poverty line in 2010 - the highest rate in 20 years.

That's more classic propaganda and disinformation.

When you include the cash and non-cash benefit package they receive, they are 200%-300% above poverty level, and if you include the wages and assets of the live-in boyfriend, it jumps to 500% to 800% above the poverty level.


You haven't proven anything. All you've done is regurgitate the standard liberal diatribe.

Originally Posted by Quick Enough

the United States remains the biggest manufacturing economy in the world, producing about 20% of the value of global output in 2010

That is grossly misleading.

If I sell 5 widgets per year at $300 each, then I have gross revenues of $1,500.

If because of Cost Inflation I'm forced to raise the price to $600 each, and I only sell 3 widgets, then my gross revenues have increase to $1,800...

...but my productivity has declined.

You guys really need to pay attention to what you're reading.