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Old 06-03-2011, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Michigan--good on the rocks
2,544 posts, read 4,280,072 times
Reputation: 1958

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvinist View Post
But it's not up to us to decide when it's time to go. The act of suicide is total arrogance. A selfish act like that denies others the chance to bless you by serving, and it makes a statement that you are somehow able to tell God you can make a better decision than he can.
That is the ultimate selfish statement. "I need you to suffer longer so I can be blessed."

Perhaps it was God who inspired Dr. Kervorkian to bring this issue to the fore out of compassion?
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Old 06-03-2011, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Somewhere gray and damp, close to the West Coast
20,955 posts, read 5,540,854 times
Reputation: 8559
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanman13 View Post
That is the ultimate selfish statement. "I need you to suffer longer so I can be blessed."

Perhaps it was God who inspired Dr. Kervorkian to bring this issue to the fore out of compassion?
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Old 06-03-2011, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,980 posts, read 14,553,701 times
Reputation: 14862
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Jew View Post
for all those who think assisted suicide (or murder with permission)
what do you think of this from the left wing time Mag.

Going Too Far with Assisted Suicide? - TIME
Outrage at this shows a complete lack of understanding about what occurs at the end of life. When you are in your last stages of life, be it minutes, hours, or days, any legitimately prescribed pain killer can impede normal body function and hasten death. It has happened this way for centuries, but it's only now people seem to want to nit-pick and blame someone. Medically managing the end of life is emotional, complicated, and should be a matter between a family and their doctor.
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Old 06-03-2011, 09:56 AM
 
8,652 posts, read 17,231,930 times
Reputation: 4622
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Jew View Post
for all those who think assisted suicide (or murder with permission)
what do you think of this from the left wing time Mag.

Going Too Far with Assisted Suicide? - TIME
It is not "assisted" when you did not ask for help...
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Old 06-03-2011, 09:59 AM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,137,880 times
Reputation: 5941
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Jew View Post
I can guarantee you he's not.


No, you can't.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Jew View Post
for all those who think assisted suicide (or murder with permission)
what do you think of this from the left wing time Mag.

Going Too Far with Assisted Suicide? - TIME
There always will be problems with anything under the sun....doesn't mean we should keep our heads buried in the sand and accept everything that happens to us, never progressing,,,,


How about all the mediacl treatments and drugs which proved to be actually harmful???See!
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Old 06-03-2011, 10:05 AM
 
29,981 posts, read 42,907,532 times
Reputation: 12828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
Outrage at this shows a complete lack of understanding about what occurs at the end of life. When you are in your last stages of life, be it minutes, hours, or days, any legitimately prescribed pain killer can impede normal body function and hasten death. It has happened this way for centuries, but it's only now people seem to want to nit-pick and blame someone. Medically managing the end of life is emotional, complicated, and should be a matter between a family and their doctor.
The problem with Kervorkian was at least some of the people for whom he provided the means to die were not yet at their natural end of life. He participated in facilitating their deaths long before imminent death was to occure and often when the individuals were quite lucid and able to communicate. That, IMO is wholly different than advanced directives giving instructions of DNR or when life support should be removed. YMMV

I've had two immediate family members who were "medicated to death" via the administration of IV morphine to the level of intentional overdose by medical professionals. I was/continue to be horrifed on both of their counts but I did not have the medical POA nor was I in the room at the time. Both would have died within hours even if their deaths had not been facilitated by overdose of IV morphine and both were already in a comatose state.
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Old 06-03-2011, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Reality
9,949 posts, read 8,846,896 times
Reputation: 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Jew View Post
I can guarantee you he's not.
No you can't and claiming that you can is laughable at best.
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Old 06-03-2011, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,980 posts, read 14,553,701 times
Reputation: 14862
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
The problem with Kervorkian was at least some of the people for whom he provided the means to die were not yet at their natural end of life. He participated in facilitating their deaths long before imminent death was to occure and often when the individuals were quite lucid and able to communicate. That, IMO is wholly different than advanced directives giving instructions of DNR or when life support should be removed. YMMV
If people choose to avoid a certain pain-filled, drawn-out death, I am not going to fault them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
I've had two immediate family members who were "medicated to death" via the administration of IV morphine to the level of intentional overdose by medical professionals. I was/continue to be horrifed on both of their counts but I did not have the medical POA nor was I in the room at the time. Both would have died within hours even if their deaths had not been facilitated by overdose of IV morphine and both were already in a comatose state.
If both would have died within hours, why are you "horrified"? And how do you know for a fact that they would have died within hours, and that their time was not then?
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Old 06-03-2011, 10:15 AM
 
3,282 posts, read 5,198,829 times
Reputation: 1935
I see the resident defenders of individual liberty are out in full force, demonizing a man who gave that to many people, and using religion as a justification to restrict freedom at that.
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Old 06-03-2011, 10:20 AM
 
12,867 posts, read 14,905,380 times
Reputation: 4459
i actually see some of both sides here. none of us should be in a position to judge how much another person has to put up with, in terms of pain and suffering. we all have different threshholds that we could tolerate, and i don't think it is fair to judge what other people can tolerate.

these people who went to dr k all CHOSE to end their lives with what they felt was dignity.

on the other hand, i do think that more could be done to give these people a social network which might help their mental state enough that they wouldn't feel that suicide was their only option.

a lot of those people died alone.
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