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Old 06-04-2011, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, IN
839 posts, read 982,549 times
Reputation: 392

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power

Funny you mention the welfare state. Did you know that both Denmark and Sweden use a voucher (Ryan's murder old grandmas and kill medicare plan)?

http://www.policy-network.net/upload...%20&%20Vad.pdf
Did you know that the term voucher can be used to refer to a wide variety of policy approaches involving government subsidization of the activity in question? Just in reading the second article you provided it becomes clear that the voucher approach in Denmark and Sweden is quite different than what is being proposed by Ryan. Beyond that, the real issue is access to, availability of, and quality of healthcare. If you look at how healthcare is funded more generally, at how access is provided, who the providers are, etc. you'll see that Sweden, for example, and the US are radically different. Sweden's treatment of healthcare is also radically different from Ryan's plans. In Sweden, access to extremely cheap but high quality healthcare is universal. Insurance companies are virtually non-existent (with less than 3% of the country's citizens living with privatized health insurance, 97% get their 'insurance' through direct government subsidization). Providers are often partially owned by the government. Etc. These vouchers are specialized to work within that system, they don't operate in the same way they could or would operate in the US and they need to be understood as operating within the context of a largely-government run healthcare system that is universal.
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Old 06-04-2011, 03:17 PM
 
7,930 posts, read 9,154,161 times
Reputation: 9345
Raise taxes on everyone, even the poor (albeit by a very small %). As Obama has said let everyone get some skin in the game. Raise co payments on medicaid by a token amount.

Make people be contributors rather than takers. Make them responsible.



But we'll never see the US like it was. Those days are over. We'll be in the top 15% of countries, but no longer number 1. Our time has passed, its China and India's turn.
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Old 06-04-2011, 03:32 PM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,464,356 times
Reputation: 4799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ever Adrift View Post
Did you know that the term voucher can be used to refer to a wide variety of policy approaches involving government subsidization of the activity in question? Just in reading the second article you provided it becomes clear that the voucher approach in Denmark and Sweden is quite different than what is being proposed by Ryan. Beyond that, the real issue is access to, availability of, and quality of healthcare. If you look at how healthcare is funded more generally, at how access is provided, who the providers are, etc. you'll see that Sweden, for example, and the US are radically different. Sweden's treatment of healthcare is also radically different from Ryan's plans. In Sweden, access to extremely cheap but high quality healthcare is universal. Insurance companies are virtually non-existent (with less than 3% of the country's citizens living with privatized health insurance, 97% get their 'insurance' through direct government subsidization). Providers are often partially owned by the government. Etc. These vouchers are specialized to work within that system, they don't operate in the same way they could or would operate in the US and they need to be understood as operating within the context of a largely-government run healthcare system that is universal.
No it's not, it's the exact same plan Ryan has proposed.
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Old 06-04-2011, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, IN
839 posts, read 982,549 times
Reputation: 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
No it's not, it's the exact same plan Ryan has proposed.
Ryan has proposed the virtual elimination of insurance companies, government subsidization of healthcare providers, a universal healthcare system? If not, not the same thing by any stretch of the imagination.
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Old 06-04-2011, 08:35 PM
 
2,170 posts, read 2,861,336 times
Reputation: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackandgold51 View Post
I've been wondering that how can America get out of this rough economy that it's in, and I've also been wondering how did this country get into this situation in the first place.
Cut taxes to 0.
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Old 06-04-2011, 08:42 PM
 
Location: Here
11,578 posts, read 13,948,459 times
Reputation: 7009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackandgold51 View Post
I've been wondering that how can America get out of this rough economy that it's in, and I've also been wondering how did this country get into this situation in the first place.
Well, let's see: First the earth cooled. And, then the dinosaurs came, but they got too big and fat, so they all died, and they turned into oil. And, then the Arabs came and they bought Mercedes Benzes. And, Prince Charles started wearing all of Lady Di's clothes. I couldn't believe it, he took her best summer dress out of the closet, and put it on, and went to town.
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Old 06-04-2011, 08:56 PM
 
2,023 posts, read 5,313,112 times
Reputation: 2004
One of the main things that should have happened and still needs to happen before the economy can recover is to hold those that caused this depression accountable by throwing them in jail. There was over 1,000 convictions from the savings and loan scandal and since this financial crisis is far bigger, the number of bankers thrown in jail should be much larger as well. If we had a decent president they would have reached out to white collar crime expert Bill Black and let him go to work. Instead Obama has surrounded himself with these bankers so they have been trying to sweep it all under the rug and kick the can down the road.
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Old 06-04-2011, 09:03 PM
 
Location: New Orleans, LA
1,809 posts, read 5,422,154 times
Reputation: 698
Quote:
Originally Posted by 73-79 ford fan View Post
One of the main things that should have happened and still needs to happen before the economy can recover is to hold those that caused this depression accountable by throwing them in jail. There was over 1,000 convictions from the savings and loan scandal and since this financial crisis is far bigger, the number of bankers thrown in jail should be much larger as well. If we had a decent president they would have reached out to white collar crime expert Bill Black and let him go to work. Instead Obama has surrounded himself with these bankers so they have been trying to sweep it all under the rug and kick the can down the road.
So Sad That's all I can say. And I will say that what goes around SHOULD come around because it has to stop period.
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Old 06-04-2011, 09:11 PM
 
30,065 posts, read 18,665,937 times
Reputation: 20882
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackandgold51 View Post
I've been wondering that how can America get out of this rough economy that it's in, and I've also been wondering how did this country get into this situation in the first place.

1. Dump Obama
2. Constitutional balanced budget amendment
3. Allow domestic expansion of coal, oil and natural gas with a 5% tax dedicated to the development of infrastructure for alternative fuels.
4. Repeal of NAFTA and China most favored nation trade status
5. Corporate US tax on a basis of "consumption", much as Germany and Japan do, in order to maintain US manufacturing.
6. Increase eligibility for social security and medicare to age 72
7. Eliminate social security "disability" option
8. Cut the military budget by 50%
9. Enforce US immigration laws


There you go- just dump liberal policy for the last 50 years and everything will be fine.
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Old 06-04-2011, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Fort Myers Fl
2,305 posts, read 3,028,838 times
Reputation: 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by 73-79 ford fan View Post
One of the main things that should have happened and still needs to happen before the economy can recover is to hold those that caused this depression accountable by throwing them in jail. There was over 1,000 convictions from the savings and loan scandal and since this financial crisis is far bigger, the number of bankers thrown in jail should be much larger as well. If we had a decent president they would have reached out to white collar crime expert Bill Black and let him go to work. Instead Obama has surrounded himself with these bankers so they have been trying to sweep it all under the rug and kick the can down the road.
Very well said. Most Americans have absolutly no clue what really happened to cause our economy to take a big dump. Being a stock trader for the last 16 years I watched all the shenanagins being played and all these wild investment vehicles being formed that sometimes I felt guilty about even being involved in the crap game. So many peoples lifes have been completetly ruined by all the dishonesty and out right theft that wall street and the investment banks played that it makes me sick.
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