Conservative ideals. Lead to Total government control. (wages, illegal, Obama)

[TheDirector]

I find it odd that the very Ideologies of "Conservatism" have through out history have ALWAYS lead to total government control of populations.

So why would conservatives support an Ideology that would surely bring about a Fascist/Dictatorship/Socialist form of government to the United States of America.

Let us look throughout history...

The natural "Base Form" of government in early human history was various forms of Dictatorships weather they be Kings/Emperors/Sultans...etc.

In these governments you have the very few which live in absolute wealth and splendor with the vast majority living in abject poverty. Assuming the dictators in power treat the people well these forms of government can last for Centuries even Milena.

However most often than not Rulers abuse their power and privilege to steal from the people they govern while neglecting their duties to provide for their "Subjects".

The extreme poverty in these societies leads to Revolution and populist uprisings in which the Dictator can be replaced...or the form of government changed entirely.

America itself was born out of the despotic rule of the English crown.

So now you have a revolution and Kings are replaced with elected leaders which have SOME accountability to the people such as Presidents/Prime Ministers etc...

In every country with elected leaders...this does not solve the problem of "Accountability" to the people. Government leaders can abuse power to amass vast wealth for themselves and their closest friends.

Even with elections of leaders the problem is the same. When you have a few at the very top and a vast majority in poverty revolution happens.


The only form of government where people have total freedom is Anarchy.

This does not last long because strong leaders emerge by force or charisma and rally supporters which leads back to the same thing...Dictatorships.

Now moving on to America...

When first founded the States and the people had vast freedoms from the government in comparison to English Monarchies.

Naturally these freedoms allowed people to rise to power that could be used against other people...which we see during the early history of our nation when we did not have any of these "Socialist" laws we have now.

There was no unions. No Workers rights. No Medicare/Medicade. Affirmative Action. Anti-trust laws. Anti-Discrimination laws and a very low rate of Taxation because the Government only did its basic essential functions such as defense.

Truly the "Golden Age" for conservatives.

And American Business BOOMED making us a World Power.

But from this came the abuse of the common man...not by Government.

But by LACK of Government.

People worked for unlivable wages in deadly factories how ever and whenever the bosses told them.

Women denied the right to vote. ALL minorities faced oppression from the PEOPLE in power...Not the government.

So these abuses lead to REVOLUTIONS.

Civil Rights Act. Affirmative Action. Women's Suffrage. Anti-Trust Laws limiting business. Workers Right. Unions etc..etc..etc

This lead to a stronger and stronger Federal government that limited the rights of people on what they could do to other people.

So what I'm saying is we have already tried "Conservatism".

Now to my main point. If the conservatives controlled EVERY branch of government. They would change a few things.

- Lowest minimum taxation level to provide for basic government functions as dictated in the Constitution.

- States rights in most issues

- No Unions in the Government.

- End Socialism like Medicare/Medicaid/Welfare/Food Stamps.

- Not "enforce" discrimination since that would be "Big government". I'm not talking KKK riding through the streets I'm talking about business owners having the FREEDOM to hire who they like and serve who they like.

-----------------------------------------

Then just like before we would get huge wealth disparities, oppression, discrimination and abuses by people on other people.

This would lead to REVOLUTION as it always does.

Then we would end up with a Socialist government as the Europeans have. Or a Fascist/Dictatorship if some Huge "Man of the People" controlled the hearts and minds of the masses.

And we can see that happen right now.

Obama would not of been possible without Bush. Looking further back, compare the Democrats and Republicans of today to the ones 50 years ago. The Country has moved to the LEFT.

JFK would be considered a Moderate republican by today's standards.

So why speed up Socialism by electing Conservatives?



I can provide numerous historical examples to support my argument.


I would honestly like a conservative to show me their argument. I'm not attacking anyone personally I just would like some counterpoints to my arguments.

[SourD]

It's way past April Fool's day!

[MStant1]

There is so much fail in this post I don't know where to begin.

[Frank DeForrest]

Originally Posted by MStant1

There is so much fail in this post I don't know where to begin.

Two Advils.

[overdose]

Originally Posted by TheDirector

I find it odd that the very Ideologies of "Conservatism" have through out history have ALWAYS lead to total government control of populations.

So why would conservatives support an Ideology that would surely bring about a Fascist/Dictatorship/Socialist form of government to the United States of America.

Let us look throughout history...

The natural "Base Form" of government in early human history was various forms of Dictatorships weather they be Kings/Emperors/Sultans...etc.

In these governments you have the very few which live in absolute wealth and splendor with the vast majority living in abject poverty. Assuming the dictators in power treat the people well these forms of government can last for Centuries even Milena.

However most often than not Rulers abuse their power and privilege to steal from the people they govern while neglecting their duties to provide for their "Subjects".

The extreme poverty in these societies leads to Revolution and populist uprisings in which the Dictator can be replaced...or the form of government changed entirely.

America itself was born out of the despotic rule of the English crown.

So now you have a revolution and Kings are replaced with elected leaders which have SOME accountability to the people such as Presidents/Prime Ministers etc...

In every country with elected leaders...this does not solve the problem of "Accountability" to the people. Government leaders can abuse power to amass vast wealth for themselves and their closest friends.

Even with elections of leaders the problem is the same. When you have a few at the very top and a vast majority in poverty revolution happens.


The only form of government where people have total freedom is Anarchy.

This does not last long because strong leaders emerge by force or charisma and rally supporters which leads back to the same thing...Dictatorships.

Now moving on to America...

When first founded the States and the people had vast freedoms from the government in comparison to English Monarchies.

Naturally these freedoms allowed people to rise to power that could be used against other people...which we see during the early history of our nation when we did not have any of these "Socialist" laws we have now.

There was no unions. No Workers rights. No Medicare/Medicade. Affirmative Action. Anti-trust laws. Anti-Discrimination laws and a very low rate of Taxation because the Government only did its basic essential functions such as defense.

Truly the "Golden Age" for conservatives.

And American Business BOOMED making us a World Power.

But from this came the abuse of the common man...not by Government.

But by LACK of Government.

People worked for unlivable wages in deadly factories how ever and whenever the bosses told them.

Women denied the right to vote. ALL minorities faced oppression from the PEOPLE in power...Not the government.

So these abuses lead to REVOLUTIONS.

Civil Rights Act. Affirmative Action. Women's Suffrage. Anti-Trust Laws limiting business. Workers Right. Unions etc..etc..etc

This lead to a stronger and stronger Federal government that limited the rights of people on what they could do to other people.

So what I'm saying is we have already tried "Conservatism".

Now to my main point. If the conservatives controlled EVERY branch of government. They would change a few things.

- Lowest minimum taxation level to provide for basic government functions as dictated in the Constitution.

- States rights in most issues

- No Unions in the Government.

- End Socialism like Medicare/Medicaid/Welfare/Food Stamps.

- Not "enforce" discrimination since that would be "Big government". I'm not talking KKK riding through the streets I'm talking about business owners having the FREEDOM to hire who they like and serve who they like.

-----------------------------------------

Then just like before we would get huge wealth disparities, oppression, discrimination and abuses by people on other people.

This would lead to REVOLUTION as it always does.

Then we would end up with a Socialist government as the Europeans have. Or a Fascist/Dictatorship if some Huge "Man of the People" controlled the hearts and minds of the masses.

And we can see that happen right now.

Obama would not of been possible without Bush. Looking further back, compare the Democrats and Republicans of today to the ones 50 years ago. The Country has moved to the LEFT.

JFK would be considered a Moderate republican by today's standards.

So why speed up Socialism by electing Conservatives?



I can provide numerous historical examples to support my argument.


I would honestly like a conservative to show me their argument. I'm not attacking anyone personally I just would like some counterpoints to my arguments.

everything you meantioned in bold would not lead to socialism. BTW, socialism is an economic system, not a political system, so don't lump it together with dictatorships.

Originally Posted by SourD

It's way past April Fool's day!

indeed

[wade52]

Conservos claim they're against government interference.

Well, unless...

1. they can get the govt into women's panties
2. they can force their favorite religion on everyone
3. they can use govt to break unions
4. they can redistribute more of America's resources to the already wealthy
5. they can gripe about illegal immigration, while supporting big business hiring millions of illegals

Otherwise, they're against big govt.

[psulions2007]

Here is a better, simpler explanation:

The natural inclination of society is to progress forward and constantly adapt to new things.

Conservatives want to keep things the way they are... i.e. "get back to the good ole days"

The only way to keep things the way they are or go back is through totalitarian methods to oppress the natural progression of society.

[SourD]

Originally Posted by psulions2007

Here is a better, simpler explanation:

The natural inclination of society is to progress forward and constantly adapt to new things.

Conservatives want to keep things the way they are... i.e. "get back to the good ole days"

The only way to keep things the way they are or go back is through totalitarian methods to oppress the natural progression of society.

A natural progression of society does not ultimately lead to Communism. It is actually the opposite. We should become MORE free as time progresses.

[Willsson]

Conservative ideals. Lead to Total government control.

You could have summed it up in one word and been redundant at the same time... Government

VOTE LIBERTARIAN ! ! !

[Visvaldis]

Originally Posted by wade52

Conservos claim they're against government interference.

Well, unless...

1. they can get the govt into women's panties
2. they can force their favorite religion on everyone
3. they can use govt to break unions
4. they can redistribute more of America's resources to the already wealthy
5. they can gripe about illegal immigration, while supporting big business hiring millions of illegals

Otherwise, they're against big govt.

Good post. The won't argue with these.