Obama should have mandated single-payer healthcare, instead he gave more control to corporate health companies

[Jaggy001]

Originally Posted by malamute

The majority of Americans HAD health insurance and were happy with it. This $3 trillion new government program was only to insure the 50 million who didn't have insurance.

Obamacare doesn't do anything to bring down the costs --- why aren't we asking why it now costs almost $10,000 for a normal vaginal birth delivery -- very little medical intervention needed.

You don't have to convince me with regard to Obamacare. I agree with you.

But Obamacare did not cause health care cost inflation although it may exacerbate it. Health care cost inflation has been running at 8.2% per year right between 1970 and 2010. This is faster than GDP growth which was running at 5.8% per year during the same period. That is why we are seeing health care eating into our overall GDP.

The problem for ordinary people is the impact of this inflation has caused companies to shift more of the burden of health care onto their employees out-of-pocket costs have been climbing. So even if you have good insurance, the financial impact of out of pocket expenses can be significant for ordinary working families.

In fact, the average worker contribution to their health care has gone up from $1,619 in 2000 to $4,129 in 2011. And that is before the impact of Obamacare.

These slides are pretty interesting as an illustration of the cost problem we have.

Health Spending: Trends and Impact | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation

[Jaggy001]

Originally Posted by InformedConsent

As long as they're willing to take the tax hit to pay for it.

This is how other countries pay for national health care:



Other countries' taxes are highly regressive - Washington Post

Will an increasing number of people finally be in favor of implementing a highly regressive tax system to pay for the national health care they supposedly want?

Swiss taxes are at the same level or lower than US taxes. The Swiss have private health care with government regulation. They do not have national health care.

Health care in the UK is paid for by National Insurance which is similar to how we pay for social security. The UK also has a parallel private health care system.

[InformedConsent]

Originally Posted by Jaggy001

Swiss taxes are at the same level or lower than US taxes.

Not for all income levels. Given their very highly regressive tax system, those actually using the most benefits are also responsible for paying more of the taxes.

[pnwmdk]

Originally Posted by Jaggy001

The vast majority of people cannot prepare for medical costs because they are simply too high.

((( SIGH ))) If there weren't an artificial level of funding that pays these massive prices... Then the prices would not be this high. Insurance and "other people's money" is the direct cause. Adding more of the same will WORSEN, not improve, the problem.

My wife just had an MRI on her foot. Her share of the cost was $700. Last year I had a nuclear cardiac stress test. My share of the cost was $3000. And we both have really good insurance.

You seemed to have no problem consuming products with insane prices... Why? Because you were spending SOMEON ELSE'S MONEY.

If you are a middle class family making $50k - $60k, medical costs can easily put the most prudent family into serious financial difficulty.

Why? Because they spend too much on OTHER things?

Getting control of health care costs and bringing them down to the same level you find in other developed countries is the key issue facing health care in this country.

Provide for me line-by-line comparisons of TRUE costs of services in other countries, vs here.

As in, show me what it costs for a tonsillectomy in the UK, Canada, Mexico, and here. No, not patient's price, the TRUE COSTS.

The first thing you'll find, is that you can't find the costs. You have no IDEA whether services cost more less in single payer systems. In fact, not only are the costs unknown, the systems are designed PRECISELY to prevent ANY accountability on the part of those managing them.

[Jaggy001]

Originally Posted by pnwmdk

You seemed to have no problem consuming products with insane prices... Why? Because you were spending SOMEON ELSE'S MONEY.

Just so long as it is YOUR money then I am fine with that

Actually, I do have a problem with insane prices but consumers don;'t have a lot of choice in that. Secondly, you don't know how much I am paying in insurance so you don't know whose money I am spending.

Seriously, we do not have a health care problem in this country. We have a cost problem. You cannot fix access to health care until you fix the cost problem. Obamacare tries to fix access to health care but does nothing about costs. As such, it is bound to fail.