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appologies for not having read the entire thread, but I have a take on this that may be unusual.
As an educated white woman, who has worked with both educated and less educated black women and men, I have a personal "rule of thumb".
I believe that because "ax" is such aprevelant pronunciation in the black community, and because even the most educated black people will ocassionally use the term when a conversation is highly emotional, it is the polite thing to do, to accept it without question, and even to use it myself (in the same conversation) to avoid embarrasing the person I am speaking with.
I value proper english, but cannot honestly fault people for using their native "dialect".
Never change your correct pronunciations to mimic the incorrect speech of another.
You might just have a teachable moment for that individual as they realize their inaccurate use of the English language.
Raise expectations, never lower them.
Your educated white woman spelling errors might just indicate why your approach needs some rethinking.
Am I the only one who notices that children typically have trouble with consonant sounds like X and TH? Maybe that's why this is stigmatized so much, because it's adults sounding like children.
The difference must be in the presence of good educators at a critical language-learning age. Some kids get this education, whereas others are taught by adults who themselves never learned.
On the other hand, you could ask why our language has so many sounds that are unnatural for all of us, that have to be drilled into us.
Never change your correct pronunciations to mimic the incorrect speech of another.
You might just have a teachable moment for that individual as they realize their inaccurate use of the English language.
Raise expectations, never lower them.
Your educated white woman spelling errors might just indicate why your approach needs some rethinking.
You are correct, spelling (and typing) are not my strong points. I think that there is an honest difference of opinion on this point. Politeness is often described as doing nothing to make the person you are speaking with uncomfortable. . . .which accounts for my attitude, but I can acknowledge other points of view.
LOL! White people screw up the English language just like the rest of us. They gave us warsh/worsh for wash, yinz for you all, and melk for milk. Some even use "please" in place of "excuse me". I've rarely seen black people use these pronunciations or word substitutions.
With that being said I do think that all native English speakers need to develop the ability to code switch.
Why do so many people fixate on the sociocultural dialect differences for African Americans yet ignore them with other groups?
Some African Americans have a distinction in speech pattern in which there is a phonological inversion (ie ask becomes aks) and /th/ is replaced with /f/ (ie bathtub becomes baftub) In the Hispanic community, some will pronounce words ending -ing with a -jing (ie lying becomes lyjing) or there is the addition of /e/ in front of /s/ words for native Spanish speakers (ie school becomes eschool) With many Asian communities there is a tendency to replace /r/ with /l/ (ie rise becomes lize) and there can also be a tendency to delete the final consonant in words (ie step becomes ste or lid becomes li)
There are numerous articulatory and phonological "disorders" or difference that exist for each ethnic group (not to mention the ones that exist for Whites based upon regional dialects) yet somehow Blacks are the only ones with the "problem"
The difference is that all of your examples use people with different native languages to begin with. To say that their native dialect influencing their speech is a "disorder" is completely wrong. Would you say that African Americans have a different language to begin with? Or is it just lazy english (street talk) being legitimized into it's own language?
Most African Americans believe it to be the later. There's a widely used adage that there are blacks and then there are African Americans. I've had friends of color point this out to me, many times, and in language I can't repeat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yayoi
With that being said I do think that all native English speakers need to develop the ability to code switch.
I would think that teaching proper English would be a better solution, rather than having everyone change up their speech patterns. You are right when you say whites have demolished the English language better than anyone.
Funny! I know white people who don't know the difference between "you're" and "your"....or don't know "there" , "their", and "they're" are all different words.
I knew a white person who thought the wind chill temperature was "windshield" temperature.
I know a nationally prominent white person who puts the word "there" at the end of phrases...she is incapable of making a sentence, just random phrases...and makes up words like "refudiate" through sheer ignorance...
I know white people who think the old saying "It's a dog eat dog world" is "It's a doggy dog world"....
I know white people who think the word "denigrate" has something to do with people's color.
Funny! I know white people who don't know the difference between "you're" and "your"....or don't know "there" , "their", and "they're" are all different words.
I knew a white person who thought the wind chill temperature was "windshield" temperature.
I know a nationally prominent white person who puts the word "there" at the end of phrases...she is incapable of making a sentence, just random phrases...and makes up words like "refudiate" through sheer ignorance...
I know white people who think the old saying "It's a dog eat dog world" is "It's a doggy dog world"....
I know white people who think the word "denigrate" has something to do with people's color.
I am working on a Master's in Speech Language Pathology so I am quite certain that my explanation is more accurate than your anecdotal inferences. But thank you for sharing.
Mmmhmmm. So you honestly think all these people have speech or language problems? Every black that says ax, every Hispanic that says eschool and every Asian that says lice?
Oh, my. Go back to class.
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Do you cringe when you hear some of the more odd contractions, like "must've"?
