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people also forget why affirmative action happened in the first place.
AA happened because white hiring managers outright did not hire any non whites, which is why forced mandates were put into place, since you are dealing with peoples livelihoods.
the white hiring managers rigged it in there favor, and had to be punished by that.
i personally think AA would be outlawed today if the government thought white hiring managers would not discriminate. with the numerous EEOC complaints still coming in, it is no surprise why AA remains.
any company discriminating should be forced to correct there workforce.
the reason why some whites whine now about AA is because they see non whites getting into higher positions of power and feel threatened that the non whites will do the same thing whites did in the 60's-70's.
Yes, you are absolutely correct. Actually, it is happening now.
Let's say that AA is abolished and a business in your town is openly discriminating. What do you do? I boycott the business. It's the owner's right to run the business the way he wants. It's my right to spend money where I want. If he loses enough business, he changes his ways or goes out of business.
Let's say that AA is abolished and a business in your town is openly discriminating. What do you do? I boycott the business. It's the owner's right to run the business the way he wants. It's my right to spend money where I want. If he loses enough business, he changes his ways or goes out of business.
In the current political climate, it would be suicide for a business to discriminate. Not to mention that a business owner who makes his business decisions based on emotion is obviously not good at what he does.
Yes, you are absolutely correct. Actually, it is happening now.
If it was wrong then, why isn't it wrong now?
i dont have a dog in this fight, im neutral on it.
i see pros and cons, i was explaining why it was implemented to begin with.
the counter to your argument would be that it is is simply karma, what goes around, comes around.
again, not my opinion, but it could be a counter to your argument from a staunch AA supporter.
i think race, gender, etc should be removed from applications and should have no impact on getting a job.
at the same time you have no idea whats going on in the head of a hiring manager. the second he sees you it might be over if you dont look right, or whatever, which is what AA is there to eliminate, bias from hiring managers.
i may be wrong, but AA is not forced. it is only for companies that have proven to have discriminated in the past, and therefore are required to correct there work force.
i believe most companies voluntarily choose to be AA/EOEs, again may be wrong, dont know 100 percent.
Let's say that AA is abolished and a business in your town is openly discriminating. What do you do? I boycott the business. It's the owner's right to run the business the way he wants. It's my right to spend money where I want. If he loses enough business, he changes his ways or goes out of business.
where your argument fails is back in that time period those businesses were the majority, not the minority like now.
it was the ones that let blacks in that were looked down upon, boycotted by whites, etc.
the most successful businesses back then were the ones that discriminated, since the majority agreed with them and were on there side, which is why the government needed to intervene.
where your argument fails is back in that time period those businesses were the majority, not the minority like now.
it was the ones that let blacks in that were looked down upon, boycotted by whites, etc.
the most successful businesses back then were the ones that discriminated, since the majority agreed with them and were on there side, which is why the government needed to intervene.
It might have been a necessary evil back then, but I think it has long outlived its purpose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tropolis
i think race, gender, etc should be removed from applications and should have no impact on getting a job.
i dont have a dog in this fight, im neutral on it.
i see pros and cons, i was explaining why it was implemented to begin with.
the counter to your argument would be that it is is simply karma, what goes around, comes around.
again, not my opinion, but it could be a counter to your argument from a staunch AA supporter.
i think race, gender, etc should be removed from applications and should have no impact on getting a job.
at the same time you have no idea whats going on in the head of a hiring manager. the second he sees you it might be over if you dont look right, or whatever, which is what AA is there to eliminate, bias from hiring managers.
i may be wrong, but AA is not forced. it is only for companies that have proven to have discriminated in the past, and therefore are required to correct there work force.
i believe most companies voluntarily choose to be AA/EOEs, again may be wrong, dont know 100 percent.
I worked for a company with Government contracts. It is the law.
I worked for a company with Government contracts. It is the law.
of course it would be with a government contractor.
im talking about everything else.
and i dont think its necessarily bad, because how the hell do i know this guy who is going to determine my future(hiring manager) isn't some neo nazi at home who posts on stormfront.
if you can remove bias, then there is no need for affirmative action.
if you cant remove bias, then you need it.
so either companies come up with ways to prevent that scenario i presented from happening, or live with affirmative action.
i will say this though. in 2011, with this diverse of a population, and the amount of skilled workers regardless of ethnicity, gender, etc. there should be diverse workplaces, based on that fact alone. it should be expected and not seen as a surprise, or viewed as affirmative action gone haywire. it really should be viewed as the norm in 2011.
i mean at my work place alone we got blacks, hispanics, whites, females.
i dont view it as affirmative action and keeping whitey at bay by hiring non-whites, i see my work place as what i would perceive any workplace to be like in 2011.
and i dont think its necessarily bad, because how the hell do i know this guy who is going to determine my future(hiring manager) isn't some neo nazi at home who posts on stormfront.
How do you know he's not an axe murderer? I would rather know he was an axe murderer than have the government force him to hide his axe murdering tendencies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tropolis
if you can remove bias, then there is no need for affirmative action.
if you cant remove bias, then you need it.
There will always be bias, coming from all races. Human nature. Life sucks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tropolis
so either companies come up with ways to prevent that scenario i presented from happening, or live with affirmative action.
Obviously a company that is governed by the emotions of its owner will not succeed. As another poster mentioned, the public is quick to demonize even people who aren't racist. You can bet your ass there would be massive boycotts of any openly racist business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tropolis
i will say this though. in 2011, with this diverse of a population, and the amount of skilled workers regardless of ethnicity, gender, etc. there should be diverse workplaces, based on that fact alone. it should be expected and not seen as a surprise, or viewed as affirmative action gone haywire. it really should be viewed as the norm in 2011.
Then why force it?
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