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Old 06-16-2011, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,436,012 times
Reputation: 12325

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cohdane View Post
Oil, food, coffee, housing, electricity-- need to get the speculators out of all of it.

Too many people have waaaaaay too much cash. So they try to protect it by speculating in things other people actually need to survive. If you're not going to take delivery, you shouldn't be participating in the supply/demand price dynamic.

It's sick and immoral.

Go buy a Picasso, Hope Diamond or joy ride on a privately owned space shuttle instead.
Amen! But I'm not surprised it went over many heads as should be expected around here.
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Old 06-16-2011, 08:30 AM
 
27,622 posts, read 20,717,374 times
Reputation: 11088
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
unfortunatly sanders like most socialist liberals only speak with forked tongue

1. the spectlators are not wall street..but WORLD WIDE
2. why go after one group of goods spectators....sugar, coffee, cotton has increase MORE than oil...but then again the fascist liberals always have to have some boogieman to hunt(ie the rich)
Your post is way too obtuse and not worthy of a response...just thought I'd let you know.
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Old 06-16-2011, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,269 posts, read 20,366,827 times
Reputation: 9292
Quote:
Originally Posted by cohdane View Post
Oil, food, coffee, housing, electricity-- need to get the speculators out of all of it.
.

Why? What harm do the bring to the market? Explain to me how speculating causes prices to be higher.
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Old 06-16-2011, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,269 posts, read 20,366,827 times
Reputation: 9292
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
unfortunatly sanders like most socialist liberals only speak with forked tongue

1. the spectlators are not wall street..but WORLD WIDE
2. why go after one group of goods spectators....sugar, coffee, cotton has increase MORE than oil...but then again the fascist liberals always have to have some boogieman to hunt(ie the rich)

Correct.

Oil speculation is no different than any other commodity.

And speculation does not drive up prices in the long run.
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Old 06-16-2011, 09:35 AM
 
118 posts, read 86,270 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post
“The last thing people need now is to be ripped off at the gas pump because speculators on Wall Street -- some of the same people who received the largest taxpayer bailout in U.S. history -- are allowed to jack up oil prices through price manipulation and outright fraud,” Sanders said. “Unfortunately, I am afraid that is exactly what is happening right now.”
Release: Sanders Introduces Oil Price Speculation Bill - Newsroom: U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders (Vermont)
Why is Sanders blaming speculators?

When President Obama ran for office he said under his economic plan energy prices would skyrocket.

Why not give credit where it is due.

At least President Obama has kept one of his campaign promises. He should take credit for higher gasoline prices.
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Old 06-16-2011, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,709,987 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
Another useless bill. If government would get out of the way, markets would bring down oil prices as people drive less.

We should eliminate ALL government price controls and ALL government energy subsidies.

Get government out of the oil business !!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop CRONY CAPITALISM !!!!!!!!!!!!
You are ignoring the fact that government is already out of the way.

The reason that oil prices are high is precisely because market forces -- the ability for Wall St., with near unlimited money can bid up the price of futures contracts.

Let me explain how this works. Instead of oil, I'll use wheat in the example.

Let's assume that you are a baker and Hilton Hotels approaches you to supply it with loafs of bread. Hilton wants to issue a three year contract at one price/loaf.

You know that the price of wheat fluctuates and if you contract at one price and wheat rises in price, you'll lose money. So, what do you do?

You buy futures contracts now, for each month during the term of the contract -- locking in a known price.

Essentially, you are transferring risk, that you don't want, to speculators, that accept this risk who also expect to make a high return should wheat fall in price.

But what happens if the Wall Street speculators, prior the baker buying his contracts, bid up wheat to twice the previous price? Well, the baker pays more for wheat and Hilton pays more for bread.

Later in time, speculators stop going long, the price of wheat falls and the speculator makes a lot of money delivering to the baker wheat bought on the spot market at half the price the baker paid for his futures contract.

That's exactly how Wall St. makes money manipulating oil futures. They drive up the price, then let it fall, pocketing the difference.

Let's remember that oil production is up 11% and demand is down, yet prices are up.

PERHAPS 60% OF TODAY'S OIL PRICE IS PURE SPECULATION

Last edited by MTAtech; 06-16-2011 at 09:51 AM..
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Old 06-16-2011, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Long Island
31,814 posts, read 18,733,430 times
Reputation: 9303
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
You are ignoring the fact that government is already out of the way.

The reason that oil prices are high is precisely because market forces -- the ability for Wall St., with near unlimited money can bid up the price of futures contracts.

Let me explain how this works. Instead of oil, I'll use wheat in the example.

Let's assume that you are a baker and Hilton Hotels approaches you to supply it with loafs of bread. Hilton wants to issue a three year contract at one price/loaf.

You know that the price of wheat fluctuates and if you contract at one price and wheat rises in price, you'll lose money. So, what do you do?

You buy futures contracts now, for each month during the term of the contract -- locking in a known price.

Essentially, you are transferring risk, that you don't want, to speculators, that accept this risk who also expect to make a high return should wheat fall in price.

But what happens if the Wall Street speculators, prior the baker buying his contracts, bid up wheat to twice the previous price? Well, the baker pays more for wheat and Hilton pays more for bread.

Later in time, speculators stop going long, the price of wheat falls and the speculator makes a lot of money delivering to the baker wheat bought on the spot market at half the price the baker paid for his futures contract.

That's exactly how Wall St. makes money manipulating oil futures. They drive up the price, then let it fall, pocketing the difference.

Let's remember that oil production is up 11% and demand is down, yet prices are up.

1. you are not even close...in fact you are wrong
2. you seem to want to blame "wall street "(america) for WORLD WIDE COMMODITIES

Quote:
Let's remember that oil production is up 11% and demand is down, yet prices are up
even though 'production' is up (not exactly true since opec just kept production flat) SUPPLY is limited...and demand (world wide) is way up, and the middleeast is very questionalbe...(war/conflict in lybia, yeman, syria, egypt, iran, afganastan, pakistan, iran, israel, etc)

3. and let's not forget that the fed(bernanki) has DEVALUED the dollar
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Old 06-16-2011, 09:51 AM
 
48,504 posts, read 95,531,547 times
Reputation: 18286
Sanders is a socialist ;so what is new?
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Old 06-16-2011, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,709,987 times
Reputation: 5661


From Barry Ritholtz:
Quote:
Fascinating chart above via David Wilson of Bloomberg.

It very much suggests that while Speculators may not have been the prime mover on the 2008 Oil peak, the specs seem to be a very large portion of the current push.

By comparing the net number of contracts owned by non-commercial oil traders (Source: Commodity Futures Trading Commission).
And this is exactly why gas prices prices are currently falling:
Quote:
Crude 5.8% the first two days of this week, suggested that speculative demand for oil may be declining.
It has nothing to do with normal supply and demand.
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Old 06-16-2011, 09:59 AM
 
118 posts, read 86,270 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
You are ignoring the fact that government is already out of the way.
You are ignoring the fact that President Obama said energy prices would skyrocket under his economic plans.

They did. We should give him credit.

Personally, I think it is refreshing. A politician actually coming through like he said he would. Very refreshing.
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