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And the issue of infinite regression of causality would dictate that there is a beginning cause at some point.
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Originally Posted by HistorianDude
And you have repeatedly run away from the direct demonstration that your "logical deduction" is internally contradictory and self refuting.
So the symmetry there is perfect.
Correction: I've repeatedly ignored stupid assertions (not demonstrations) that my "logical deduction" is contradictory. You and the others have yet to demonstrate it.
Honestly....I don't think it matters at this point. Like the rest of the anti-God crowd on this board, you're closed-minded and won't accept whatever I give you.
If you want to understand it, go back and re-read my posts, or google "cosmological argument". It's not that complicated.
Haha... and when you realize your argument is faulty and illogical, you don't even have the cajones to admit it.
Sadly for you, I actually do believe in God, and I am a non-denominational Christian. What I don't subscribe to is the silly beliefs of the dumbed-down evangelical American Christians who don't have a clue that what they are espousing doesn't make sense. I believe people like you are doing the religion a disservice as a whole by presenting faulty arguments that have been proven wrong while ignoring both scientific evidence and evidence that the Bible has been manipulated by man while cherry picking those ideas from the Bible that fit your individualistic beliefs, a core component of evangelical American Christianity. This drives people away from the religion.
My goal in all of these arguments is to expose you and your people's arguments for the frauds they are. You cannot go around parading circular logic and imaginary fantasies as sound arguments... however, that is all your sect does and it embarrasses the religion as a whole.
Fascinating. So the only way to use logic to prove God's existence is to sneakily define a category that the logic doesn't apply to. Special pleading makes for unsound logic.
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And the issue of infinite regression of causality would dictate that there is a beginning cause at some point.
The assumption of causality is yours.
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Correction: I've repeatedly ignored stupid assertions (not demonstrations) that my "logical deduction" is contradictory. You and the others have yet to demonstrate it.
I wouldn't necessarily call it contradictory, it works fine under the premises you set up.
It's just that you've pre-loaded the conclusion into your premises - your argument only works if you accept the implicit premise of there being a special, uncreated category of entities. Except that the existence of that category is what you've set out to prove.
Still find it interesting that some equate believing in scence as fact (evolution bing one branch) as not believing in a creator. Nothing can be further from the truth and comes across as under-estimating HIS ability IMHO.
Casper
Still find it interesting that some equate believing in scence as fact (evolution bing one branch) as not believing in a creator. Nothing can be further from the truth and comes across as under-estimating HIS ability IMHO.
Casper
Precisely. It's sad how many evangelical Christians out there think of God as some sort of simple being that can only do a limited amount of things.
Evolution is no longer a theory but a scientific law. It describes the diversity and similarities of specieis. It is fact-based, and no serious scientist disputes it.
The fact that fact contradicts your mythology, AND you would rather hold onto your mythology and the hope for an "eternal golden parachute" it holds out to you is about YOU, not nature.
You are free to self-deceive yourself, and I support your right to do so, but don't for a moment think it can go beyond that.
As far as research "into creationism" is concerned, there is nothing to research - it is all fable, and you can't research that which has proven not to exist.
It would be like researching fire-breathing dragons, or the Jolly Green Giant.
Nicely said
Some of the most learned theological minds have reconciled the two but too many in this country still keep moving backwards. We are headed for our very own 'Dark Ages' sure enough.
"Marc Leclerc, who teaches natural philosophy at the Gregorian University, said the "time has come for a rigorous and objective valuation" of Darwin by the Church as the 200th anniversary of Darwin's birth approaches.
"Finally a theologian has echoed what I believe. In the May–August 2003 NCSE Reports, Prof. John Haught of Georgetown University says that creationism debases the Bible: "Theologically, 'intelligent design' trivializes both science and the scriptures by bringing in God at the level of science. . . . The proponents of 'intelligent design' seem unable to separate evolution from evolutionary materialism. They throw the baby out with the bathwater, discarding good science and at the same time turning God into a tinkerer rather than a creator.""
Haha... and when you realize your argument is faulty and illogical, you don't even have the cajones to admit it.
Sadly for you, I actually do believe in God, and I am a non-denominational Christian. What I don't subscribe to is the silly beliefs of the dumbed-down evangelical American Christians who don't have a clue that what they are espousing doesn't make sense. I believe people like you are doing the religion a disservice as a whole by presenting faulty arguments that have been proven wrong while ignoring both scientific evidence and evidence that the Bible has been manipulated by man while cherry picking those ideas from the Bible that fit your individualistic beliefs, a core component of evangelical American Christianity. This drives people away from the religion.
My goal in all of these arguments is to expose you and your people's arguments for the frauds they are. You cannot go around parading circular logic and imaginary fantasies as sound arguments... however, that is all your sect does and it embarrasses the religion as a whole.
What argument have I proposed that is "circular"? Do you even really know what that means?
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Originally Posted by psulions2007
Precisely. It's sad how many evangelical Christians out there think of God as some sort of simple being that can only do a limited amount of things.
I have no problem believing God could work by evolution if he wanted to. There is not evidence that He did, though. The Genesis account contradicts it, as does natural evidence, such as the fossil record.
What else would you call a being that created the universe?
Except that argument hinges on an assertion you made earlier. Simply because you say a being created the universe does not make it so. Causality is not proof of such a being only that there was a cause. You are making an assertion to claim A proves B via an Appeal Fallacy because it is what you wish to be true rather than providing any factual evidence that illustrates it is.
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That's my point. Time had a beginning. It is not eternal, or we never could have passed an eternal amount of time to get to this today.
But that still does not prove your assertion about God. Correlation because causality is accepted does not prove causation as your argument attempts to assert.
In short, Causation being accepted does not in of itself dictate Creationism should be accepted, is accepted, or should be taught as theory or science. You make an assumptive leap in saying that Causality being accepted means Creationism should be, the correlation does not create causation and as such you are enacting False Cause to declare one leads to the other.
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