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Old 06-20-2011, 02:36 PM
 
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Anything above zero is debt adding to the GDP. For example, the "1" on the vertical scale represents $1 of GDP added for every dollar of debt.

Anything below "1" is wasted money in that you get less GDP out than the dollar that was put in. The last time GDP increased at all was around 1980 in the middle of the chart.

An increase in debt does not increase GDP.
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Old 06-20-2011, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,811,904 times
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Government spending has been between 20% and 25% of the GDP since 1975. Whats new?
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Old 06-20-2011, 02:51 PM
 
355 posts, read 209,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
An increase in debt does not increase GDP.
Not according to NIPA. When I took my concerns of artificial growth due to massive government spending to my macro economist teacher, he jumped out of his chair and heralded that we are back at the steady state. That was over two years ago.

Unless you are Austrian or outside the mainstream, economists will pound into your head that increasing government expenditure will bring economic growth. In fact, it is built into their calculation of GDP: Y = C + I + G.

Antal Fekete has a nice write up on the Marginal Productivity of Debt.
http://www.financialsensearchive.com...2009/0330.html
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Old 06-20-2011, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
37,961 posts, read 22,141,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
Government spending has been between 20% and 25% of the GDP since 1975. Whats new?
So why not pass a law that says it can only be 18%? Not as if politicians think the laws they pass actually pertain to them, but I can dream can't I.
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:03 PM
 
355 posts, read 209,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
So why not pass a law that says it can only be 18%? Not as if politicians think the laws they pass actually pertain to them, but I can dream can't I.
His idea that government should increase spending based on gdp calculations is bogus.

For instance, if we were to eliminate the income tax which is roughly around half of the governments revenues, we would have to go back to a government of the the early-to-mid 1990's.

Cutting government in half is not a radical idea. Plus, real growth comes from production, not government expenditure.
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:03 PM
 
10,545 posts, read 13,583,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
Government spending has been between 20% and 25% of the GDP since 1975. Whats new?
Nothing, but this time it came with hope and change.
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:09 PM
 
20,187 posts, read 23,850,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
Government spending has been between 20% and 25% of the GDP since 1975. Whats new?
Larger debts... and also the fact that it didn't solve anything... Trillions of dollars of debt... for what? What was the gain?
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,811,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
So why not pass a law that says it can only be 18%? Not as if politicians think the laws they pass actually pertain to them, but I can dream can't I.
You would have to go back to 1966 for the last time when it was under 18%. So, if 18% is the benchmark you want to maintain for government spending, guess what... the tax revenue would have to be over $2.6 Trillion dollars for a balanced budget. When was the last time we were there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
Nothing, but this time it came with hope and change.
I think you read way too much into it, well beyond the intended application.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
Larger debts... and also the fact that it didn't solve anything... Trillions of dollars of debt... for what? What was the gain?
Even if the country maintained its spending at 2001 level, we would have a debt today. Why?
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:25 PM
 
10,545 posts, read 13,583,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
I think you read way too much into it, well beyond the intended application.
I know. I didn't intend it as a serious argument.
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Old 06-20-2011, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
8,802 posts, read 8,896,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
Government spending has been between 20% and 25% of the GDP since 1975. Whats new?
The fact that government receipts are below that and have been accumulating for 30 years to $14.3 trillion in debt.
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