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I promise I'm not trolling (I'm a newbie), but I really want to understand why progressives want to change America.
America was founded on freedom, an escape from the tryanny of British rule. Our founding fathers wanted limited government (not NO government). Why do progressives want to change what this country was founded on? America is the last bastion of freedom (for now anyway) and those of us that believe in freedom want to protect it!
Expansive government has been tried time and time again only to be a failure. America has survived over 230 years (which is a long time for a government) by giving control to its citizens instead of a king/ruler/dictator...etc.
If you want the government to take care of you, why don't you move instead of screwing up what we have?!
I promise I'm not trolling (I'm a newbie), but I really want to understand why progressives want to change America.
America was founded on freedom, an escape from the tryanny of British rule. Our founding fathers wanted limited government (not NO government). Why do progressives want to change what this country was founded on? America is the last bastion of freedom (for now anyway) and those of us that believe in freedom want to protect it!
Expansive government has been tried time and time again only to be a failure. America has survived over 230 years (which is a long time for a government) by giving control to its citizens instead of a king/ruler/dictator...etc.
If you want the government to take care of you, why don't you move instead of screwing up what we have?!
Change is the only constant. Why do extreme conservatives want to change "America"?
I promise I'm not trolling (I'm a newbie), but I really want to understand why progressives want to change America.
America was founded on freedom, an escape from the tryanny of British rule. Our founding fathers wanted limited government (not NO government). Why do progressives want to change what this country was founded on? America is the last bastion of freedom (for now anyway) and those of us that believe in freedom want to protect it!
Expansive government has been tried time and time again only to be a failure. America has survived over 230 years (which is a long time for a government) by giving control to its citizens instead of a king/ruler/dictator...etc.
If you want the government to take care of you, why don't you move instead of screwing up what we have?!
You should really learn more about the founding fathers and what they wanted.
There were two founding fathers rules of thoughts, it lead to the Federalist and the Democratic-Republican parties.
The federalists favored a interpretive view of the constitution, and a strong central government that put money into industry. Many in that party also felt that there should be an American aristocracy.
The Democratic-Republicans favored a strict adherence to the constitution, or a "constructional" view of it. They wanted a nation of small family farmers was what we needed, with little industry, and little government intervention.
The same debate that we have today was going on when the current constitution was written.
The founding fathers had various ideas, it wasn't about small government. What they didn't want was to pay British taxes, they had no problem taxing Americans for American needs.
You should really learn more about the founding fathers and what they wanted.
There were two founding fathers rules of thoughts, it lead to the Federalist and the Democratic-Republican parties.
The federalists favored a interpretive view of the constitution, and a strong central government that put money into industry. Many in that party also felt that there should be an American aristocracy.
The Democratic-Republicans favored a strict adherence to the constitution, or a "constructional" view of it. They wanted a nation of small family farmers was what we needed, with little industry, and little government intervention.
The same debate that we have today was going on when the current constitution was written.
The founding fathers had various ideas, it wasn't about small government. What they didn't want was to pay British taxes, they had no problem taxing Americans for American needs.
Thanks for the food for thought. I thought I had a pretty good understanding of what the founding fathers wanted, but I could be wrong.
I think it's time to re-read the federalist papers.
Let's assume for a minute that there's no self interest involved, that you're not simply seeing part of the public voting themselves benefits.
I think that a lot of this stems from the probably mistaken idea that you can effectively plan for large groups of people. That rather than the Laws of Unintended Consequences ruling the roost, sufficiently wise men can invent top down designs of systems for all manner of things. When plans gang aft agley, well, you just invent more plans. Homo proponit, sed Deus disponit.
Another chunk of belief system seems to come from hypertrophied senses of fairness. That, rather than efficiency or justice, really seems to drive a lot of this behavior.
A third, as typified by modern attitudes on immigration, seems to be a low sense of nationalism. It's a world where your countrymen are worth little more than furriners.
In the long run, cultural evolution will do it's bit to show what's what. The American Experiment will either prosper in it's new direction or fail miserably. Whether we pull out of the tailspin and become a place where the Obama administration is mostly remembered as a Jeopardy question, or we become a kind of metastasized Greece, implies a preconception as to the right answer about all of this. For all I know, a country run by the teacher's union is just what is needed.
Thanks for the food for thought. I thought I had a pretty good understanding of what the founding fathers wanted, but I could be wrong.
I think it's time to re-read the federalist papers.
One only need to look at the national bank that the Federalists supported.
Does the federal reserve ring a bell?
Remember, Hamilton wanted to make Washington President for life, and the Federalists wanted to put him in a tomb beneath the capitol building.
Even Jefferson went against his own dogma as a Democratic-Republican because of the Louisiana purchase, which he had 0 authority to do.
Its why I tell people we have never once had a constructional view of the constitution followed. The federal government has always taken an interpretive view of the constitution, thats what the Judicial branches job is, interpret the constitution.
I don't see that we want to "change" America, we just feel that some of the fundamentals of what it was founded on have been hijacked.
To tell you the truth, it doesn't strike me as a worthwhile comparison.
The attitudes on government, and practically anything else, held by mid 18th century Americans are different enough from modern ones that it might as well be viewed as an alien country. If you look at what got them riled up back in the day, current times would make their heads explode.
The 'conservative' vs. 'liberal' fuss looks to be mostly a 20th century concept.
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