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You have provided no proof that the Founders wished for men to marry men. None.
These are the men who founded America and you can't show me where they said, "Homosexual 'marriage' is the same as and perhaps better than real marriage".
Go ahead and point out where the Founders supported gay sexual relationships.
As much as it pains many people to think of (including me at times), the Founders and what they wished are not entirely relevant in our present society - neither are their ideas something that should be upheld 100%.
Many of the rights currently enjoyed by American's weren't covered by them. In some cases they thought quite differently. The most obvious cases being women and African American's. The first they didn't cover at all, the second they didn't see as fully human or at least that they didn't have the same worth as a white person.
For all the talk of what the Founders wanted, a great many American's wouldn't be soon keen to roll back the clock to their original vision alone. And with good reason.
This is one of those areas the Founders are better left out of, imo, at least insofar as trying to make a certain point is concerned.
It's interesting how you praise someone for a thoughtful response and then spend the follow-up letting loose one silly stereotypical accusation after another. If this post is any indication, you are certainly not a willing participant in a thoughtful, reasoned debate.
The core issue of this thread, "acceptance of adult/child sex and marriage, does not lend itself to honest debate. It is a disgusting topic and taking a pro stance on it is quite impossible in my mind. Pedophiles are vermin. Blood sucking parasites preying on the most innocent of our society. The idea of accepting them as equals on the same level as consenting adults is repulsive to most folks other than them and the disgust they generate with their twisted views is not open to debate.
Pedophiles are vermin. Blood sucking parasites preying on the most innocent of our society. The idea of accepting them as equals on the same level as consenting adults is repulsive to most folks other than them and the disgust they generate with their twisted views is not open to debate.
That's what 1950's society thought of homosexuals.
We keep having to re-adjust our definition of public decency and social acceptibility. Who's to say where it might be in fifty years?
The ancient world had its share of pederasty cultures, Greece and Rome ...
That's what 1950's society thought of homosexuals.
We keep having to re-adjust our definition of public decency and social acceptibility. Who's to say where it might be in fifty years?
The ancient world had its share of pederasty cultures, Greece and Rome ...
By that logic then other things that were accepted then could be accepted now. Slavery,disposing of "defective" children at birth. Nope,that dog wont hunt. Plain and simple. Children are not sex objects. People who think that they are, or that a child is capable of having a sexual relationship with an adult as an informed and willing partner are predatory varmints that need culling from the gene pool.
By that logic then other things that were accepted then could be accepted now. Slavery,disposing of "defective" children at birth. Nope,that dog wont hunt. Plain and simple. Children are not sex objects. People who think that they are, or that a child is capable of having a sexual relationship with an adult as an informed and willing partner are predatory varmints that need culling from the gene pool.
Do you realize I was playing devil's advocate on that one?
Because the Supreme Court justices understand basic biology. When a man can impregnate another man then we can talk.
Still not answering my question. I'll ask a 4th time:
If it's not mentioned in the Constitution, then why did the Supreme Court rule that laws banning interracial marriage are unconstitutional? Where did they find that in the Constitution?
Maybe you could start your answer by quoting that section of the Constitution.
Unlike others, your response was clear headed and thoughtful. Its about time someone can DEBATE and not WHINE.
Anyway, I am all for two adults falling in love and living happily ever after. And although the idea of two men having "sex" makes me want to vomit it is none of my business what they do to each other in the privacy of their own homes.
The problem is that there is a clear political agenda at work to chip away at the foundations of a decent American society. The gay "marriage" debate isn't about recognizing the love between a man and another man. Its about destroying Christian culture via Federal mandate.
A lot of liberals, but not all liberals, want nothing more than to take dynamite to what they see as an oppressive Christian culture of hard work, personal sacrifice, the nuclear family and normal heterosexual marital bliss.
It is an ongoing response to the standards of the Greatest Generation by the hippie "counter-culture" that rose in the 1960's. I'd bet most of the liberals in this thread were HEAVILY indoctrinated at liberal schools by former hippie college professors that hammered home the idea that regular marriage was wrong and everybody is oppressed by "the white man".
The reaction to normal relationships in this thread is frightening but not surprising. In 40 years you will hear the liberals of 2051 demanding that the universal sexual rights of children be recognized. They will point to how gay "marriage" was once seen as obscene too.
...and the beat goes on, I guess.
I know you complimented me at the beginning of your post, but the rest of your post is keeping me from saying "thank you."
You mention that you're afraid of the destruction of "Christian culture through federal mandate." Where do you get that from? Where in the Constitution does it say we are a Christian nation? Neither my wife nor I are Christian (I was raised Jewish but currently do not subscribe to any religion and my wife is Hindu). Are we allowed to live in your Christian nation?
The US is a diverse and complicated place. It's a pluralist nation where we have to take into account the fact that people came from many different places with many different ideas of how to live their lives. We can accommodate some ideas and reject others. For example:
There are many conservatives who believe that we "liberals" would accept shariah law, since we're usually more tolerant of Muslims. Despite the fact that Shariah law isn't as bad as most Americans think (I've visited and lived in a few moderate Muslim countries), I would reject any implementation of into our system. Why? It would violate our separation of church and state guaranteed to us under the first amendment. Not to mention, there are some element of shariah law that would conflict with our common law, and we can't have that.
With gay marriage, we're coming at it from a different angle. Let's face it, gay marriage is still a fairly new idea in America. It still seems different, and even a little strange to large amount of people. The more we learn about homosexuals, the more we understand that homosexuality is a naturally occurring phenomenon in nature AND with humans. And gays now want the same rights and privileges that their hetero counterparts have. What's wrong with that?
Your justification that it's "destroying christian culture" is preposterous. If stand against gay marriage simply because of your christian beliefs, than you obviously don't believe in and/or understand the first amendment. Under the first amendment, your church won't have to perform or recognize their marriage. Like I said earlier, you don't have to talk to gays, be friends with gays and you're welcome to teach your children that it's wrong (although that might give some problems in the future if one of your kids turns out to be gay).
I'm from Mass, and I joked earlier in the thread since we implemented gay marriage all four of our sports teams have one their respective championships. Obviously gay marriage had nothing to do with that (or did it?), but not much else has changed here. We're not a terribly religious state but I live near a number of churches and not one has been raided for their anti-gay views. Most DO accept gays, but they certainly are required to accept homosexuality.
... a clear political agenda at work to chip away at the foundations of a decent American society. ... Its about destroying Christian culture via Federal mandate.
... want nothing more than to take dynamite to what they see as an oppressive Christian culture of hard work, personal sacrifice, the nuclear family and normal heterosexual marital bliss.
The problem is that there is a clear political agenda at work to chip away at the foundations of a decent American society. The gay "marriage" debate isn't about recognizing the love between a man and another man. Its about destroying Christian culture via Federal mandate.
A lot of liberals, but not all liberals, want nothing more than to take dynamite to what they see as an oppressive Christian culture of hard work, personal sacrifice, the nuclear family and normal heterosexual marital bliss.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gay marriage or liberalism has nothing to do with "Christianity", people no longer want christian "values" forced upon them by the gov't, they want equality, thats all.
America is the last great bastion where otherwise intelligent people believe in "supernatural" nonsense that was written over 2000 yrs ago.People are entitled to believe what they choose, but at the end of the day, the constitution demands Equality, simple as that.
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As for your wet finger, you're on the wrong website, dude. 
