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I am prepared to discuss the matter with any who possess the study. I cannot, however, assist anyone in acquiring the Williams study. It really is that simple. In short, Christianity, for me, is belief in the Father, Son and Holy Spirt, and in the finished work of Jesus Christ, which entitles me to forgiveness for sinful rebellion against God, gives access to his Grace, and allows entrance into His kingdom. Beyond that, I know that I do not conduct my life perfectly every hour of the day, and there is a continual need for forgiveness. However, I would not characterize Jesus nor what he represented as simply being 'nice', therefore my comments are not to "trash the integrity of homosexuals", but to expose certain deceptive aspects associated with what I perceive to be an agenda.
Your post in response to AeroGuyDC
I have not claimed that homosexuals do not suffer. I am in no way, justifying bullying, or any type of harassment. Policies begun, not by the majority of homosexuals, but by those who have represented them, have caused them to be portrayed as desperate and underhanded.
Issues such as Child indoctrination, Homosexual Teen suicide, and government supported anti-bullying policies, have not been handled in a manner that I would call reflective of integrity.
All teens have problems, some worse than others. Children can be very cruel, even at a very young age, causing emotional scarring not easily healed. I do not deny this fact. But, facts are facts, and false data is false data. If homosexuals, and the parents of homosexual teens, wish for this issue to be examined seriously, with a focus purely on 'teen suicide prevention', then have them stop tipping the scales to make it appear as though only homosexual teens are experiencing mistreatment, and harassment. Develop 'real' suicide prevention programs which will accurately reflect recognition of student diversity without bias.
Dude, you are so transparent. Every single one of your posts has been made in an attempt to trash homosexuals in some way or another. Stating that you are not perfect is not a license to continue to promote ignorance on the issue of gays. True, none of us are perfect and we all make mistakes. That is not the same thing as being immune to criticism or the consequences of our actions. You spend a lot of time on here, and I suspect other places, doing and saying everything you can to disparage the image of homosexuals and their supposed conspiratorial "agenda." One of the consequences of that is that you are not going to be taken seriously for bringing up a study like this. The obvious conclusion is that you are doing what you always do and are trying to legitimize your own opinions on gays and lessen their overall arguments for equality. And sorry, but your words/actions on here DO justify discrimination, including bullying. How can you sit there and pretend like promoting discrimination has no correlation to violence? It absolutely does. Homosexuals have not portrayed themselves as "desperate and underhanded." People like YOU have.
And you still have not proven your case on suicide rates. Latching onto a single study in which you happen to like the results is, again, not a referendum on reality. True research takes multiple studies over long periods of time. Who knows, perhaps the data has been too high, perhaps too low. But to suggest, quite laughably, that you are merely trying to get to the truth, is bogus. The truth is not what you're interested in, but rather your own personal biases against gays. You support this study because you take it as evidence for your beliefs, not because it represents what's really going on.
Actually, I've seen those stats trotted out more often by the haters than the LGBT folks...to 'prove' that gay people are screwed up in the head.
So now who is manipulating data?
stan, let's face it, studies and surveys can be manipulated anyway the group wants to do it, that is why I pay almost no attention to them. For every study that says so and so, another will dispute that by doing thier own study. If we are going to put any credence into these studies, we need to consider what group is doing the study.
The OP and other gay obsessed posters have an obvious agenda against gays....plain and simple FACT!!!!!
As others have posted.........to use gay suicides to further one's twisted and frankly nauseating hate agenda is repulsive and it's obvious some folks revel in hatred and negativity........I have no time to respond to the "dregs of humanity".
Now here is some scientific and unbiased data!
After reviewing the first 3 sites posted, I believed I would find new, or updated statistics with regard to higher suicide risks associated with an individual's sexual orientation. What I found was quite interesting.
In my original post, a 1989 study by Paul Gibson, (Social Worker), was examined and was found, at least by Professor Williams, to be inaccurate. The reason was that Gibson combined the false attempts with the True attempts, which produced statistics significantly outweighing suicide risks in non-LGBT youth. I also reported that websites and others have continued to report the 1989 stats, as recently as 2010. The Wikipedia source references a government study titled 'Report of the Secretary's Task Force on Youth Suicide', published in 1989. There is a reason why that year matches the year that Paul Gibson, (the Social Worker), conducted his study. The reason is, that Paul Gibson submitted his work to the task force. The study that Wikipedia is referencing is actually information submitted by Paul Gibson, the same inaccurate study mentioned in the OP. Nothing new from Wikipedia.
"For several reasons, little can be said with certainty about suicide deaths among LGB people.Most mortality data do not include sexual orientation. However, based on the higher rate of suicide attempts among LGB youth and the relative seriousness of their suicide attempts, it is likely that LGB youth experience higher rates of suicide deaths than their non-LGB peers".
This direct quote implies that available post mortem data usually gives no indication of sexual orientation. Without this the suicide victim is simply a person, not distinguished by his/her professed orientation, and therefore admittedly, "little can be said with certainty". It is also important to note here that suicide attempts, once again, provides no data distinguishing between True and False attempts.
"Gay youth are two to three times more likely to attempt suicide than other young people (see Gibson,this volume)".
The above quote is taken from a document dealing with the issue of teen suicide, in its totality, not LGB exclusively, but interestingly enough, the portion in the paper which was devoted to "Gay Youth Suicides", deferred to Paul Gibson's 1989 paper submitted to the Secretary's Task Force on Youth Suicide. Another paper, once again, relying on the Social Worker's inaccurate findings.
"Results of this analysis revealed that sexual orientation did not have a significant main effect on suicide risk scores in this sample (i.e.,BHS score; SPS Hopelessness, Negative Self-Evaluation, and Suicidal Ideation subscale scores), and therefore the first hypothesis was not supported. Thus, bisexual and questioning youth exhibited no greater suicide risk than did the other groups".
"The literature on adolescent suicide has increased with the increase in suicidal behaviors, particularly among certain adolescent groups where suicidal ideation and behavior are higher. However, the predictive validity of suicide assessments has received mixed reviews. Several instruments display a high false positive rate, that is, overpredicting suicide risk (Muehrer, 1995)".
"Research suggests that some sexual minority youth are depressed and may consider suicide as an escape, not from issues related to their sexual orientation, but as a result of challenges they encounter in the broader social context (Savin-Williams, 1994; Rotheram-Borus, Hunter & Rosario, 1994; D'Augelli & Hershberger, 1995)."
At least the first 3 of the sites posted by PITTSTON2SARASOTA, revealed no new data, nor did they reveal anything supporting the idea that when dividing True and False suicide attempts, associated with LGB teens, that these teens were somehow at greater risk than other teen groups. The sources provided did, however, confirm that Paul Gibson's inflated stats are still accepted, repeated, and relied upon.
Last edited by Pennsylvanian1; 07-08-2011 at 09:00 PM..
WOW...Pennsylvanian1...You have gone to great lengths to prove that 'them *****s' are no more likely to blow their brains out than 'the straight ones'...and I thank you for that! I was really concerned about this next epidemic of gay kids getting 'special treatment'...
Anyway, despite all data, studies, etc...I find it amazing...Just on a common sense level...I remember distinctly in school, late 80s-90s, kids that were perceived in ANYWAY WHATSOEVER as being gay, getting picked on unmercifully...Just based on that alone I can understand how it is a real issue causing problems. BUT...apparently, christian warriors, like yourself, are out to prove this is non-sense. And I thank you! I woke up today, hearing we are about to flush another billion dollars down the toilet by being in Iraq/Afghanistan, the republicans would rather destroy our credit rating than raise taxes one dime on the super rich, the NFL may lose a season...But after reading your post...I realize the real problem facing society is them damn gays getting more and more attention for problems that aren't real!
I thank you again Christian Warrior...Please tell Jesus I am along for the fight...Get rid of the *****s, pornography, and taxes, and jesus' plan for America will be complete!
WOW...Pennsylvanian1...You have gone to great lengths to prove that 'them *****s' are no more likely to blow their brains out than 'the straight ones'...and I thank you for that! I was really concerned about this next epidemic of gay kids getting 'special treatment'...
Anyway, despite all data, studies, etc...I find it amazing...Just on a common sense level...I remember distinctly in school, late 80s-90s, kids that were perceived in ANYWAY WHATSOEVER as being gay, getting picked on unmercifully...Just based on that alone I can understand how it is a real issue causing problems. BUT...apparently, christian warriors, like yourself, are out to prove this is non-sense. And I thank you! I woke up today, hearing we are about to flush another billion dollars down the toilet by being in Iraq/Afghanistan, the republicans would rather destroy our credit rating than raise taxes one dime on the super rich, the NFL may lose a season...But after reading your post...I realize the real problem facing society is them damn gays getting more and more attention for problems that aren't real!
I thank you again Christian Warrior...Please tell Jesus I am along for the fight...Get rid of the *****s, pornography, and taxes, and jesus' plan for America will be complete!
Another clumsy, mean-spirited, and bigoted capitulation to superior reasoning and thorough research methods. Homosexuals and their supporters are, more and more, being unmasked as the real haters on the C-D Forums.
Another clumsy, mean-spirited, and bigoted capitulation to superior reasoning and thorough research methods. Homosexuals and their supporters are, more and more, being unmasked as the real haters on the C-D Forums.
Oh, please. You have proven yourself to be among the haters.
Plus, you report your own threads in which you yourself have said despicable things and expect someone else to be punished for it.
He hates gay people and then runs to the mods when something HE SAID is repeated. Need I say more?
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