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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaznjohn
I've never posted that all poor people are lazy, as some contend
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoZmiC NinJa
"The poor will tend to stay poor because they continue to involve themselves in acts and make decisions that make them poor. Most people want to be wealthy but many who fail make excuses why they can't, i.e. victimization, they don't conform to the proper American culture, or they don't have enough ambition to make themselves marketable. Therefore, there will always be poverty and there will always be wealthy. The question is what can be done to incentivize those who are in poverty to work themselves out of it? Somehow, I don't feel that providing them with all the necessities they need, i.e. healthcare insurance, housing assistance, and food stamps will do the trick. It hasn't so far."
Yours is the most idiotic statement I have read to date.
What planet are you from or are you part of the 1 percent of the top earners that are continually getting tax breaks from our current administration?
Under this administration there is a bigger seperation between the "rich" and the working "poor" than ever before.
Poor does NOT equal lazy.
Before Bush's tax cut the bottom 20% paid a .5% share of the tax burden, now they pay .3%.
Conversely the top 1% did pay 37.1%, now they pay 39.3%.
If the rich are getting richer, its surely not because of the Bush tax cuts.
No AmazingJohn, you basically described someone who is lazy without actually outright saying that it was lazy. That where I and other got that from.
No, you read into it what you wanted to vilify me. Making poor decisions does NOT translate into lazy. Having children when you can't afford them does NOT translate into lazy. Having a mental or physical disability doe NOT translate into lazy. Wearing sagging jeans or speaking improper english at a job interview does NOT translate into lazy. Refinancing a house to pay for a vacation does NOT translate into lazy. These are some of the actions and decisions that keep poor people poor.
They don't have enough ambition to make themselves marketable.
That kind of sounds like lazy.
Not trying to vilify you John....and you do bring up good points, people do act dumb with their money sometimes...but if you are growing up in a poor environment it is a lot harder to turn things around, even if you do make smart choices. Not impossible, but a lot harder. Making yourself marketable generally means an education, which costs an arm and a leg nowadays. There are the exceptions that can start at entry level some place and work into upper management on their own, but they are definitely exceptions.
They don't have enough ambition to make themselves marketable.
That kind of sounds like lazy.
Not trying to vilify you John....and you do bring up good points, people do act dumb with their money sometimes...but if you are growing up in a poor environment it is a lot harder to turn things around, even if you do make smart choices. Not impossible, but a lot harder. Making yourself marketable generally means an education, which costs an arm and a leg nowadays. There are the exceptions that can start at entry level some place and work into upper management on their own, but they are definitely exceptions.
If one was to deny that many poor people, and some wealthy people for that matter, are lazy then one does not live in reality. I did indeed list this as a trait of many poor people, but not all as some would like to portray my contentions.
I agree with your statements. (See? We do agree on something) And, they do confirm my previous statement that opportunities are available to everyone, just not to the same extent. Marketability, along with education, includes conforming to the American culture, in most cases, and using ones abilities and common sense.
Last edited by Amaznjohn; 08-14-2007 at 02:49 PM..
Like bily4 said, we are not trying to vilify you. The things you describe are basic human traits. We all fail at decision-making in some kind of ways.(Some) Wealthy people do a lot of drugs, but does that make them better because they have the money to do it and then go to million dollar rehabs and then come out and do the same thing? Unfortunate people do not have the benefits of going to those kinds of rehabs, but is it their fault?
We could go back and forth on what decisons unfortunate people and wealthy people make, yet they do not outweight one or the other. The stance I have is that most of those that are less fortunate are not there because they want to be.
Poor people today have cable, Tvs, cars, barbeques, and a place to live. The poor in another country will look at the poor people in the US and say damn your a rich bastard!!
They do? Not all of them, I suspect not most of them.
"Poor people in Mexico have food to eat and shelters to live in. Poor people in Ethiopia would think poor people in Mexico are rich bastards!"
"Poor people in Canada have free healthcare and less crime to worry about. The poor in America will look at the poor people in the US and say damn your a rich bastard!!"
Like bily4 said, we are not trying to vilify you. The things you describe are basic human traits. We all fail at decision-making in some kind of ways.(Some) Wealthy people do a lot of drugs, but does that make them better because they have the money to do it and then go to million dollar rehabs and then come out and do the same thing? Unfortunate people do not have the benefits of going to those kinds of rehabs, but is it their fault?
We could go back and forth on what decisons unfortunate people and wealthy people make, yet they do not outweight one or the other. The stance I have is that most of those that are less fortunate are not there because they want to be.
Maybe not because they want to be, because nearly all people want to be fiscally "comfortable", at least. However, some individuals have made decisions to drop out of school, to surround themselves with other people who have made bad decisions, to have children when they can't afford it, to break the law, and to do drugs. These decisions are indeed their fault and it is again their fault that they cannot afford rehab because they made these decisions. This is what I meant earlier by putting oneself in a position to be able to be treated as the elites are treated. Everyone makes bad decisions, but one needs to be in a position that these decisions can have a minimal impact. The same can be said so that one can be prepared for an unfortunate accident, or an unforeseen illness. Again, "life isn't fair" and "stuff happens", so we need to be able to mitigate the damages when these occur. This is done through early planning and good decision-making, i.e. education, marketability, ambition, and persistence. IMO, when people advocate providing material help to those who don't demonstrate these qualities, more harm than good is being done to the individuals and society by providing them with a disincentive to do better.
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