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Old 07-20-2011, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
7,085 posts, read 12,049,927 times
Reputation: 4125

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
15 seconds on Google isn't too hard, is it? Welfare programs in and of themselves is a fairly narrow view of the world. What you should be concerned with is economic freedom of countries as a whole. Look at the big picture, not just the political flavor of the week.

Here you go
Heh, the top members of the list have social security, welfare, and universal health care.

Hong Kong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - Has it.
Singapore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - Has it
Republic of Ireland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - Has it
Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - Has it

Index of Economic Freedom historical rankings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Hillsboro, OR
2,200 posts, read 4,420,247 times
Reputation: 1386
Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post
The point you're attempting to make is obvious. You think we should be like all those countries that have full-blown, cradle-to-grave entitlements.

Newsflash - we're not like them, and we didn't rise to become the world's only superpower and the economic backbone of the world in only 200 years by trying to emulate them. There's absolutely no reason to start now.

If you want to take advantage of (and pay for) those entitlement programs, go live in one of those other countries. Don't try to drag US down just to fit some notion that YOU have in your mind of what the perfect U.S. would look like.
You're right. It has more to do with the fact that America has 300 Million people and is more isolated from the troubles that have plagued Eurasia and Africa.
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:26 PM
 
9,855 posts, read 15,199,322 times
Reputation: 5481
What is the point of this thread, exactly? Proving a point by casual inferance is not proving a point at all.

There is a natural cycle within countries.

From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to selfishness;
From selfishness to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage.
(by H. W. Prentis)

Right now the United States is transitioning to the stage I put in bold. We are nothing new in the world.
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,804,560 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
Right now the United States is transitioning to the stage I put in bold. We are nothing new in the world.
Do you think a stronger middle class as opposed to a stronger rich class would be a deterrent to that effect? But I must commend you on your exceptionally quick turnaround from presenting example of countries with "economic freedom" to the dire state of things at home. Good job!
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:28 PM
 
9,855 posts, read 15,199,322 times
Reputation: 5481
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
Do you think a stronger middle class as opposed to a stronger rich class would be a deterrent to that effect?
I think more personal freedom and less regulation would be a deterrent to that effect. I don't think economic class should be part of an equation.
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Riverside
4,088 posts, read 4,385,969 times
Reputation: 3092
Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post
The point you're attempting to make is obvious. You think we should be like all those countries that have full-blown, cradle-to-grave entitlements.

Newsflash - we're not like them, and we didn't rise to become the world's only superpower and the economic backbone of the world in only 200 years by trying to emulate them. There's absolutely no reason to start now.

If you want to take advantage of (and pay for) those entitlement programs, go live in one of those other countries. Don't try to drag US down just to fit some notion that YOU have in your mind of what the perfect U.S. would look like.
"Newsflash" (): Quite a few Americans have a different "notion" of what the "perfect U.S." might look like than you do.

Rather than leaving, if it's OK with you, we're gonna stick around and fight for our vision of an American civil society. See you at the voting booth!
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,804,560 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
I think more personal freedom and less regulation would be a deterrent to that effect. I don't think economic class should be part of an equation.
Like less cops to ensure greater personal freedoms? I was speaking of the genius you presented with your discovery of "let me google it for you", and the search you went for, however.
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,982 posts, read 13,754,711 times
Reputation: 5691
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
Top 3 countries in terms of Economic Freedom (two of them, often used to demonstrate "free market capitalism" at work):
1- Ireland (Perhaps it is?)
2- Hongkong (half of the population lives in public housing)
3- Singapore (Government linked corporations account for 60% of the GDP)


I was thinking Myanmar, as it has the best chance to be in the G20 once China goes honest and transforms it from a pseudo territory to "China".

As a former resident of Ireland, I had to check this out. It is true that Ireland is the most like the USA of all the European countries. They were able to attract many American businesses during recent years, but inequality has also risen, and the social safety net is a bit in question.

http://www.ul.ie/sociology/socheolas...%20Schafer.pdf

Pretty interesting article.
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Gone
25,231 posts, read 16,928,124 times
Reputation: 5932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
As a former resident of Ireland, I had to check this out. It is true that Ireland is the most like the USA of all the European countries. They were able to attract many American businesses during recent years, but inequality has also risen, and the social safety net is a bit in question.

http://www.ul.ie/sociology/socheolas...%20Schafer.pdf

Pretty interesting article.
Plus the EU is going to have to bail them out before they go under.
Casper
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Gone
25,231 posts, read 16,928,124 times
Reputation: 5932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin View Post
Does anybody know of or have a list of countries where entitlements like social security, universal healthcare, unemployment, welfare do not exist?

Or maybe we can narrow it down by entitlement.

List of countries without social security
List of countries without universal healthcare
List of countries without welfare

etc

I suspect that absolutely none of the countries that will be listed will a G20 country or even a country of any relevance economically.
Excellent Question
I see few even understood it by their replies and none could name even one. Home Run!
Casper
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