Romneycare: Expensive and We're All Paying for Massachusetts (work)

[emilybh]

Originally Posted by datacity12

You are the devil. Nuff said.

I BEG YOUR PARDON! I'm an independent. I work for the client NOT the insurance company. I'm not one of those commission oriented insurance salespeople that will sell any kind of crappy policy and or tell anyone anything they want to hear just to get a sale. My goal has always been to help people get better quality coverage for the same or less cost than they had before.

[Jaggy001]

Originally Posted by Phil306

Heaven forbid someone actually pay for their own healthcare.

What makes you think that the Germans do not pay for their health care?

[emilybh]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306
Heaven forbid someone actually pay for their own healthcare.

Originally Posted by Jaggy001

What makes you think that the Germans do not pay for their health care?

Another GREAT point. In the old days when there WAS not stupid healthcare crisis, like with your automobile, people paid for their own regular needs such as annual check-ups. Imagine how expensive car insurance would be if it had to cover an oil change or any sort of maintenance.

If we went back to the days where health insurance was used ONLY for MEDICALLY NECESSARY expenses, we'd see prices of medical costs drop substantially. You only need to look at costs for plastic surgery which is NOT covered by insurance to see that complicated procedures can be done affordably. Less complicated procedures tha are covered by insurance costs exponentially more! Doctors would be forced to compete for business and prices would drop.

Additionally what we see in Europe that we don't see here, which is why healthcare seems better there and it seems they get more for their money as they spend a LOT less per capita on medical care than we do IS that they have a LEVEL PLAYING FIELD between conventional modern western medicines (drugs and surgery) and Traditional Natural Medicine ( Naturopathy, Homeopathy, Chiropractic, Chinese Medicine and more).

This means that in Europe, if you have the sense to do so, if you are suffering with a chronic and or degenerative disease like Cancer, you aren't forced into surgery radiation and chemotherapy. People can chose the natural approach where rather then kill healthy cells along with cancer cells, they can go to a Naturopathic Doctor where they can learn how to strengthen their immune system and permanently fight off the cancer using natural medicines and diet. This is a lot less expensive and a lot better for your health, needless to say, than conventional medicine for cancer.

For obvious reasons, the medical establishment in this country POO POOS natural medicine here because if large numbers of people started to use it, there wouldn't be as many sick people dependent on their prescriptions and or treatment -- which only MASK symptoms and don't cure or eliminate any diseases.

The entire cancer industry in this country is the second largest contributor to the gross national product. If enough people did their research and figured out the truth about cancer that it can be eliminated without toxic treatments, all the people who work for the American Cancer Society and other Cancer fundraising outfits would lose their jobs. Scientists who repeatedly get government grants to "find a cure" for cancer would lose their grant money. A lot of oncologists would be in the unemployment line. We couldn't have THAT! AFter all, MONEY is more important than helping the patient. That is what EVERYONE should understand about the medical establishment in our country.

It is about the money first and foremost. The sooner most Americans stop being so NAIVE about Medical Care or Disease care in America (because it certainly has nothing to do with health), the better off they will be.

[bolehboleh]

For those of you who think that "Romney-care" has made made insurance in Mass even more expensive, you're half right. Since 2003, insurance rates have gone up 48%, which is 2% lower than the national average. Also, since 2003, Massachusetts has gone from the most expensive state for health insurance, to ninth.

Mass. Residents No Longer Paying The Most For Health Insurance « CBS Boston

[crbcrbrgv]

Originally Posted by bolehboleh

For those of you who think that "Romney-care" has made made insurance in Mass even more expensive, you're half right. Since 2003, insurance rates have gone up 48%, which is 2% lower than the national average. Also, since 2003, Massachusetts has gone from the most expensive state for health insurance, to ninth.

Mass. Residents No Longer Paying The Most For Health Insurance « CBS Boston

Part of the problem is one side is so disingenuous.

My wife has worked for the same company for seven years. Every year, healthcare has gone up for her 8 to 12 percent with nary a peep from her provider.

Last December, she received a letter from her provider stating Obama's policy was the reason it went up nine percent.

There was never an explanation before. Now Obama is the scapegoat.

Disingenuous, to say the least.

[bolehboleh]

Originally Posted by crbcrbrgv

Part of the problem is one side is so disingenuous.

My wife has worked for the same company for seven years. Every year, healthcare has gone up for her 8 to 12 percent with nary a peep from her provider.

Last December, she received a letter from her provider stating Obama's policy was the reason it went up nine percent.

There was never an explanation before. Now Obama is the scapegoat.

Disingenuous, to say the least.

You should trace the history of political donations of her company.

[bolehboleh]

Originally Posted by brattpowered

Wow, I never knew Massachusetts took in more money from the feds than it put in.

They don't:

United States Federal Tax Dollars -

[Dane_in_LA]

Originally Posted by Phil306

Heaven forbid someone actually pay for their own healthcare.

You don't think the Germans do? Who does, then? The French?

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA

That pretty much describes the German model, but Heaven forbid the US emulates a model that has worked since the 1840s.

That is not the German model.

You might want to better inform yourself. The German model does not use hospitals.

I live in an 11-county Metropolitan Statistical Area population 3 Million and there are 19 full-service hospitals.

You will never under any circumstances see anything remotely similar to that anywhere in Europe.

Paris, France (population 3 Million) has only 6 full-service hospitals, Berlin, Germany (population 3 Million) has only 3 full-service hospitals and Bucharesti, Romania (population 3 Million) has only 3 full-service hospitals.

Get rid of the freaking hospitals and your health care costs automatically decrease 300% to 700% literally over-night.

An hospital is the least efficient and least effective means of delivering health care services, which is why Europeans, who obviously have bigger brains than Americans, don't use hospitals.

The reason you have hospitals in the US is because you have all been brain-washed by one of Obama's biggest campaign donors, the American Hospital Association (AHA), who wrote much of the legislation in Obamacare, and who specifically wrote Section 6001 which outlaws the Clinic Model that Europeans use to provide effective, efficient and low-cost health care services.

Originally Posted by Bluesmama

I think it is too late to come up with ANY plan or strategy to fix this problem.

All you need is a real leader who has a brain and isn't owned by anyone, and who has your best welfare in mind.

Step #1: Ban the illegal cartels. Make it so that no hospital can associate with any other hospital. Hospital Cartels like Tri-Health illegally collude to illegally fix prices so that there is no Free Market Competition and you pay the price of the Robber Baron Hospital Cartels force upon you (that is Command Economics just like the Soviets used).

Step #2: Apply the sports/radio rule. No one can own more than one hospital in a Metropolitan Statistical Area. What, um, Free Market Choices do I have? I can go to St Luke East owned by the Sisters of Mercy, or St Luke West owned by the Sisters of Mercy, or Bethesda North owned by the Sisters of Mercy, or Mercy West owned by the Sisters of Mercy or Mercy East owned by the Sister of Mercy. What the hell kind of choice is that? And if not them, then I can go to St Francis owned by the Sister of Charity, or St George owned by the Sister of Charity or Good Samaritan owned by the Sisters of Charity, or Provident owned by the Sister of Charity. Again, what the hell kind of choice is that? Okay so I can go to Jewish Hospital, but that's in the same freaking cartel owned by Tri-Health and all of the Sisters of Charity hospitals. Whooopeeee!

Step #3: License the hospitals out of existence. For any private (ie not run by a city, county, State or university) hospital that offers more three services, force them to purchase an operating license equal to 50% of their gross revenues. That means if a private hospital has an emergency room, and an OB-GYN department, and an orthopedic section their fine, but for the oncology department, that would require a license, and so would the diet/weigh loss clinic, and so would cardio-pulmonary, psychiatry, geriatrics, pediatrics etc etc etc.

Obviously, hospitals couldn't afford the licenses, so they would have to shut down most of their services.

Does that mean no one gets open-heart surgery? No, it just means someone opens a cardio-pulmonary clinic not associated with any hospital, and provides low-cost, highly efficient highly effective services....just like they do at clinics in Europe.

I've repeatedly shown the article from the Cincinnasti Enquirer where the AHA, the two "competing" (snicker) Hospital Cartels and the insurance companies ran to Columbus to ram through legislation to block doctors from opening a cardio-pulmonary clinic that would only perform open-heart surgery.

The fact that the clinic could charge $13,000 for open-heart surgery frightened the Hospital Cartels, who charge $26,000 to $41,000 for the same procedures.

Yeah, that would cut into their perks for hospital administrators.

Why do you think there are kidney dialysis clinics? Because, hospitals charge way too much. I believe it was California where a group of dialysis patients formed a group, bought their own dialysis machines and then offered the services to others. Then it spread across America. No more going to hospitals and paying with your eyeballs for dialysis.

The American Hospital Association (Obama's best buddies) is still livid over that and has been trying for years out-law those clinics in order to force people to use hospitals again, where they can rape you of all your money.

If you did that, health care would instantly become affordable. You'd pay $2,300 for childbirth instead of $9,200 (in most markets).

After you do that, then you can work on, um, "health insurance" which you have never really had. What you have is a socialist health plan where your money is pooled together in a group, and then you have men subsidizing health care for women, and single people subsidizing health care for families (as I already proved on another thread by showing typical rates for single payers and families).

If you had true health insurance, well, first it would based on actuarial science and I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't want to go there because it's based on risk, so the fat-bodies would pay more than those who aren't fat.

Still, outside of true actuarial science, you could force health plan providers to offer something closer to true actual health insurance, by allowing people to pay for only the coverage they want, just like for your home or auto.

That would go along way from shifting health plans from communist nightmares to free market responsibility. If it was up to me, then if you want emergency room coverage only, then that is what you would buy and it would cost a helluva lot less than what you're paying now. If you want to cover prescription medications prescribed by ER physicians, that would cost a tad more.

If you want doctor's office visits covered, you'd have to purchase a plan for that. If you want general prescription medication coverage, you'd have to purchase a separate plan for that.

I'd make people purchase a separate rider if they want STDs covered. Purchase another rider for HIV/AIDs. If you're an alcoholic, then you need to purchase a rider for cirrhosis of the liver. If you're over-weight, then you'd best purchase a rider for Type II Diabetes.

If you're over 55, you might want to purchase a rider for Alzheimer's and Dementia (right now younger people subsidize that for the old skins).

If you can get pregnant, then a woman had best purchase a child-birth rider, unless her boyfriend will cover her by buying a pregnancy rider for his hindrance.

Yeah, so you already have a communist system where people are paying for other people's health care, most of you just don't get it.

Originally Posted by Jaggy001

What makes you think that the Germans do not pay for their health care?

I had to pay 10 DM once.

I was swimming at a rock quarry (a court-martial offense for military members in Europe) and cut myself to the point I needed stitches and a tetanus shot, so I couldn't go a military facility (plus I was on a Nuclear Duty Roster so that would create complications). My girlfirned took me to her doctor, he sewed me up, gave me a tetanus shot and charged me 10 DM (which actually cost me about $3 or so since the exchange rate was $1 = 3.18 DM at the time).

[crbcrbrgv]

Originally Posted by bolehboleh

You should trace the history of political donations of her company.

No need to. She works for oil.