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We need a Moderator, quick! Isn't the "voice of reason" strictly banned in political debates?
I'll throw it back into the realm of madness. I'm certain that the USA will become 97% Estonian by July 8th, 2009. If anyone can prove me wrong, then you will be tarnished with the dreaded "voice of reason" label.
Very slick try, but I'm not going for it. Your hypothesis is eminently appealing in its clear premise, but you are hiding behind the fact that you know very well it can't be proven until July 9th, '09.
Nice try, but I won't "bite".....
. We can sit here and wonder what a non-western colonized world would look like, but then we'd go down too many paths. Who knows, maybe white folks would have been slaves, and then here in the year 2007, we'd been talkin about them evil racist Black folks.
This is equivalent to the old saying, "If my Aunt had Bal...." (ahem)---well anyway, "If my Aunt had (male body parts) she'd be my Uncle"...
It's true, but it's really unknowable exactly how her hypothetical life as my Uncle would have been different from her actual life as my aunt, since, in fact, she DOES NOT have "those", and is NOT my uncle---she's still my aunt. Good philosophical excercise, though......
Your hypothesis is eminently appealing in its clear premise, but you are hiding behind the fact that you know very well it can't be proven until July 9th, '09.
Then I hereby invite you and your family (or a small group of friends, your preference) to gather for "America Goes Estonia" Day, on July 9th, 2009.
I'll provide the food (Estonian, of course), you can bring the beverage of your choice.
And, for the record, I totally agree with you about bily4's voice of reason, especially this simple observable fact: "Spanish will continue to become a significant language, but I don't see English disappearing."
Exactly. That's why I was suggesting the possibility that we'll become more of a bilingual country, but I certainly wasn't suggesting that Spanish would become the dominant language. I think it's a GOOD thing to have multiple languages and cultures, this has been an historical strength of America, but I agree that it's ideal for us to all speak a common language by the 2nd generation. First generation gets a pass, right? It's harder to learn new languages as you get older, so if you just showed up from Guatemala or Latvia or Namibia and you're over the age of 30, we probably shouldn't expect you to become fluent in English. Just make sure your kids get exposed to the language from an early age so that they're not marginalized in language ghettos, where their life choices will be limited. It seems we all tend to agree but we're using different words to say the same thing...
How is it racist? It's a historical fact that Greeks invented democracy. It's a historical fact that modern capitalism came from Britian. It's a historical fact many of the laws we've come to take for granted were drived by Romans, as well as many engineering marvels. The notion of freedom from Tyranny was first brought up in the Magna Carta in 1215 England.
Have we as a nation degenerated to such a deluosarily PC state that we're going to call actual recorded history into question? I didn't say anything even the remotely racist about anyone. How is saying "A white person did _________" a racist statement? If I said "Martin Luter King gave us civil rights", would that be racist?
Just for the record briarwood did you know of the multicultural Rome with a African Emperor - Septimius Severus (AD 145-211).
This emporer was a lawyer too and very accomplished.
Just for the record briarwood did you know of the multicultural Rome with a African Emperor - Septimius Severus (AD 145-211).
This emporer was a lawyer too and very accomplished.
The formation of the Roman Empire and it's culutre was already quite in place by then. In fact, it would all come down 200 years after his leadership.
I never said Non-Whites haven't accomplished a great deal, but people equate saying something good about white culture as the same as saying something bad about non-white ones. I mean, jesus, do you not hug white children, or would that be raicst?
And you post proves it. People fall all over themselves trying to prop up this dictromity in their heads of White = evil, everyone else = god's gift. Instead of simply acknowledging Both the fact that Rome was multicultural yet predomietnly a white invention, you had to justify your feelings by throwing in a token black senator. How would you feel if I talked about the many "token" Black slaveowners.
The sad irony of this whole exchage is that instead of refuting this man's article's main points, you're absolutley proving them right!
Also, what about Asia? Asia sprung some of the richest societies on the planet. And isn't it funny how the liberal set never truly gives "Asians" minority status. Maybe this article has more to it than we think...
The formation of the Roman Empire and it's culutre was already quite in place by then. In fact, it would all come down 200 years after his leadership.
I never said Non-Whites haven't accomplished a great deal, but people equate saying something good about white culture as the same as saying something bad about non-white ones. I mean, jesus, do you not hug white children, or would that be raicst?
And you post proves it. People fall all over themselves trying to prop up this dictromity in their heads of White = evil, everyone else = god's gift. Instead of simply acknowledging Both the fact that Rome was multicultural yet predomietnly a white invention, you had to justify your feelings by throwing in a token black senator. How would you feel if I talked about the many "token" Black slaveowners.
The sad irony of this whole exchage is that instead of refuting this man's article's main points, you're absolutley proving them right!
Also, what about Asia? Asia sprung some of the richest societies on the planet. And isn't it funny how the liberal set never truly gives "Asians" minority status. Maybe this article has more to it than we think...
I certainly do not equate white with evil, or for that matter any skin colour with evil.
The Romans were by historical standards just one step along the road to where we have reached today. Primordialy we all left Africa to disperse and take up our skin colour according to the power of the suns rays. To hold that any one group is responsible for all or most that modern man has within his grasp is ignoring the facts.
It is understandable that emotion plays such a big part when we put forward points that we believe, have held dear and have formed our life around but hopefully the purpose of these posts is to enable each of us to reach for greater maturity in our appraisal of the world. I joined for that very purpose.
[quote=briarwood;1384738 And isn't it funny how the liberal set never truly gives "Asians" minority status. Maybe this article has more to it than we think...[/QUOTE]]
This much does present an uncomfortable point. Back in California's "Proposition 209" days (when the argument erupted over using race, ethnicity, etc as "quotas" in University admissions) it was a well-known but little-discussed fact that, had college admissions thrown out the "race" angle entirely, and gone instead to a straight, no-strings policy of "merit" admissions on the basis of past scholastic achievement alone, the Asians would have totally out-performed ALL the other groups, including whites. This certainly "complicated" the argument, that's for sure...everyone was forced to come up with a much more "creative" formula, and it couldn't be laid at the feet of "white racism"---(well, at least it couldn't be EASILY laid there)....
I agree with the response from macmeal because historical data do not address the current situation adequately. Times have changed. There is accumulating evidence that we're heading towards a bilingual nation, similar to Canada but without being divided by political boundaries. I'm not saying this is good or bad, just pointing out that Spanish is becoming a major second language in the USA and from all the evidence I can see this trend is accelerating.
After a critical mass of US citizens speaks fluent Spanish, especially in the SW, there becomes less incentive for 2nd or 3rd generation Spanish-speaking immigrants to become fluent in English. Is that good or bad? I don't know. Canada is a nice country and they've got a vastly more language-segregated population than we do, so I'm not sure it's something we should get upset about. At the same time, I don't think we should deny that it's happening. I feel more motivated to learn Spanish than ever before, because so many of my friends and neighbors are primarily Spanish-speakers. And I enjoy chatting with them in their language. It gives me freedom, it expands my mind. It's healthy for us to know more than one language.
If I could go back to my childhood I'd do the European thing and learn at least 3 or 4 languages fluently. It's empowering and liberating!
Well I'll have you know that although it may seem that Canada is divided by political boundaries you will find French communities in every province. Although I"m from a province that is considered to be very English my whole family (that includes extended family as well) is French. The majority of their spouses speak French and they are teaching it to their children. I would say 75% or more of my community is bilingual and there is even French mass. I am from Alberta and I hate that people think it isn't French. I know many families who speak French as their only language at home. It is wrong to say that the boundaries of who is French in Canada is politically divided. It is our national language, so get your facts straight. Yesterday I was at a friends house and there were about 15 people there. 7 of those people were trilingual, and 5 of them bilingual and the rest conversational in another language. In the United States I highly doubt it would be easy to find those statistics at a random get together. I am trilingual and I never would have learned my third language if I didn't know French. For the US to be like Europe where everyone knows 3 or 4 languages you must begin somewhere as a country. Accepting Spanish as a national language is a good start. it's never to late to learn a second language!
Location: Los Angeles, which as I understand was once upon a time ago part of the United States of America
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You people can take your multiculturalism, and all that garbage from Frankfurt School marxists, and shove it. We don't need this garbage, it does nothing to stregthen our nation, and simply degrades our quality of life to the mediocre status most of the world has, which isn't pretty. Diversity is weakness, and the U.S. is not a nation of immigrants. Turn off the damn television and wise up.
In America, we do have some who need to learn more than just a second language. I live and work in the Washington DC area, one of the more diverse areas in the country. Taking a ride on the Metro here looks like attending a UN General Assembly meeting. There are people from all over the world. It isn't uncommon in walking the streets to hear five or six different languages being spoken...some that you can't even vaguely identify. As the world gets smaller, more and more places will come to be like Washington DC. Some people just won't have on hand the skill-set necessary to be able to handle that with aplomb...
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, and then here in the year 2007, we'd been talkin about them evil racist Black folks.
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