Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Democratic MOB rule, does not overcome the US Constitution!
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokieFan
Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
Section 5.The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
Note that first sentence only says "shall not be questioned." This says nothing about anyone's or any entities' authority to pay debts. Section 5 only indicates Congress shall have power to enforce...provisions of this article, which, again, gives no authority to anyone or any entity to authorize payment of anything!
But Obama is a constitutional scholar, wouldnt he be the expert? After all, I thought he taught Constitutional classes.
"A lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client."
As if Obama as President has time to research the legal theory regarding the use of the 14th Amendment to raise the debt limit, something that has never been litigated, has no court precedent to review and would require an extensive search through the primary documents pertaining to the passage of 14th Amendment.
But then you probably think that clerks to the Supreme Court spend their time ironing robes and going out for coffee?
You cannot cherry pick one section and omit the section that tells which branch has the power to apply it.
The two sections may be in conflict on this issue. The President can act and then it will be left up to the Supreme Court to see if there is a conflict between the two sections. But the Supreme Court will not come into play unless someone files with the Supreme Court.
Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
Section 5.The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
I wonder... does anybody question the validity of the debt? You can stop paying your credit card bill for a time period without questioning the validity of the debt.
Anyways, the Congress writes the laws and the President enforces the laws. Giving the power to both write and enforce laws (including budgets) to the President makes him or her royalty.
Besides, only Congress has the power to borrow money on behalf of the United States:
Quote:
The Constitution of the United States
... Article. I.
... Section. 8. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
...
Anyhow, they just need to stop spending so much bleeding money: That's the third option (the other two being default on the debt or raise the debt ceiling). One option might be to close a bunch of overseas military bases.
Quote:
1. How many foreign military bases are there worldwide?
Foreign military bases are found in more than 100 countries and territories. The US currently maintains a world-wide network of some 1000 military bases and installations. In addition, other NATO countries, such as France and the UK have a further 200 such military locations within the network of global military control. The biggest “host†countries are those that once lost a major war in which the US was involved. Germany, Italy, Japan and Korea are the four biggest ‘hosts’. France and the UK mainly have bases in the remains of their colonial empires. The UK is strong in the South Atlantic and around the Mediterranean, France is strong in the South Pacific and in Africa. Russia currently has six military facilities in former Soviet Republics and India has one in Tajikistan.
It's pretty clear that the power of the purse was intended to only be given to the United States Congress. Anyone who thinks otherwise is obviously not paying attention to the limits on the power of the different branches of government... perhaps just blindly listening to what those seeking power tell them.
Wrong. Social Security is very much discretionary spending. They adjust the payings, the tax rate, the savings rate, all the time. While they wont ever adjust the payout to zero, there is not one law mandating that the us federal government pay for Social Security. There however is one that says bonds must be paid for. Social Security payment to citizens create a "promise to pay", not a legal one to be "paid back". Again, it was setup like this by design in order to pass constitutional muster. Social Security is a TAX plan PERIOD, and exactly the same argument is being used to try to pass Obamacare as "legal".
If Social Security was mandatory spending, then they would have to count the future IOU's as a liability, skyrocketing the national debt into the $100T neighborhood, just like companies have to expense them.
You've provided nothing here but your opinion, and that's fine, as far as it goes. And you have every right to be wrong.
That provision of the 14th Amendment was created in response to the Civil War debt accrued by the South. The Supreme Court said it has much broader implications. In the current context, it is a violation of the Constitution for Congress to default on our public debt and crash our credit rating. The Debt limit is statutory law, which is trumped by the Constitution. If Congress breaks the law by not raising the debt and not paying our obligations, the President has the authority to go above Congress and raise it on Constitutional grounds.
Congress never threatened to NOT pay its EXISTING BILLS. More money than is needed comes into the treasury to cover them. Barry would be facing an impeachment trial immediately if he tried to usurp this power from the Congress.
No he wouldn't. Obama has the power to overrule Congress on Constitutional grounds over the debt. Congress would be breaking the law and violating the 14th Amendment by defaulting on our obligations and raising our credit raiting. The President can invoke the 14th Amendment to protect our credit raiting and obligations.
All presidents consult their lawyer(s) on matters of importance that could have legal implications. Childish post.
For that matter, all government agencies have a Legal Counsel. An entire department devoted to advising the heads of the agencies on what's legal for them to do and what isn't.
CIA, FBI, NSA, Homeland Security, State Department, Securites and Exchange, FDA, etc. etc. all have Legal Counsels.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
