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In 2005 George W. Bush and the previous Congress, in their great wisdom, decided to serve the interests of the wealthy by making private student loan debt non-dischargeable in bankruptcy, further cementing, in essence, the existence of an "indentured educated class."
Now throngs of students who made the well-intentioned investment mistake of investing in higher education (perhaps driven in part by a lack of job opportunities in our nation's depressed economy) cannot escape their student loan debt. If you borrow money on credit cards and blow it in Vegas or buy fancy cars you can't afford or go on lavish cruises or buy an expensive house you can't afford you can free yourself from the debt, but not if you do something that seems more responsible such as investing in higher education.
Cryn Johannsen of the All Education Matters, Inc. blog has been writing about this subject recently and even did an Internet radio interview about it. You can find the radio interview and some of her blog posts here. Some of the reader comments are very sad.
So what do you guys think? Is student loan debt driving many people to suicide? Imagine what it must be like to (1) think that you will be permanently impoverished, (2) to feel responsible for making bad educational investment decisions, and (3) to feel like a huge loser. The pressure to throw one's self out of a 27th floor window or to want to strap on a suit of dynamite and just explode must be overwhelming.
Perhaps suicidal graduates should organize a march on Congress and a mass suicide on the steps of the Capitol Building to bring some attention to this issue. Please feel free to share any stories you have about indebted graduates who have committed suicide. I hope that these stories reach the mainstream media.
I would suggest that they change their names and move to another country. Life is precious. Anyway, though, yes, that's a pity, but aren't there government programs, volunteer opportunities, merit pay, continued education credit, etc. that would help them get their debt under control? Aren't there programs that pay your student loans for you if you do a certain amount of service to the community once you receive your degree?
In 2005 George W. Bush and the previous Congress, in their great wisdom, decided to serve the interests of the wealthy by making private student loan debt non-dischargeable in bankruptcy, further cementing, in essence, the existence of an "indentured educated class."
It's non dischargable because it's public money (ie: "my tax dollars"). We fund education for people who, in turn, are supposed to pay it back so we can fund education for the next group. When that breaks down and the money isn't paid back it's basically another government handout. And very easy to take advantage of if you had a mind to do so. I support it being non dischargable and suggest people borrow as little as possible instead of looking to it as a primary means of support while they spend x-number of years in college. There was a thread recently about an out of work teacher who figured they should go get a second masters degree while supporting themselves with student loans because they couldn't find a job. ("hey, I have no job so the best idea is to run up more debt!!") If we use the system this way we have to be held accountable for paying it back.
Everyone wants something for nothing and we cant seem to educate the "stupid" out of people.
It's non dischargable because it's public money (ie: "my tax dollars"). We fund education for people who, in turn, are supposed to pay it back so we can fund education for the next group. When that breaks down and the money isn't paid back it's basically another government handout. And very easy to take advantage of if you had a mind to do so. I support it being non dischargable and suggest people borrow as little as possible instead of looking to it as a primary means of support while they spend x-number of years in college. There was a thread recently about an out of work teacher who figured they should go get a second masters degree while supporting themselves with student loans because they couldn't find a job. ("hey, I have no job so the best idea is to run up more debt!!") If we use the system this way we have to be held accountable for paying it back.
Everyone wants something for nothing and we cant seem to educate the "stupid" out of people.
I don't agree with this. The beauty of living in America is being able to change your social status. If you are smart enough to earn a college degree, why should a lack of resources stop you?
I am one of those people who are back in school, "racking up debt" and "using tax payer money" to earn my MBA. Ironically, I worked professionally BEFORE I earned my BA. But that was ONLY because I knew someone who talked someone into giving me a chance. For 5 years before that I was stuck doing the lowest level retail and food-service jobs. I walked into that real-estate office not knowing a thing; and 4 years later I was the escrow accountant for the firm. But that was nothing but being in the right place at the right time.
That doesn't happen for most people. I had to move 1000 miles away and have lost all of those connections. Therefore I went back for my BA. Why else would anyone think I am qualified enough to bring me on as an employee? Yes, I had experience....but only 4 years and only one professional job. I am competing against others who have bachelor degrees, so to remain competitive, I needed one too.
Now I work at a public university where you just cannot hold a certain position without an advanced degree...so I am working on my master's. I don't lose any sleep at all about going into debt doing so. I am a smart individual and I excel in my courses. And no, it is NOT my fault that my family is poor and that I am also pretty low-income and cannot afford to pay college tuition on my own.
When I didn't have a college degree, people harped on me over and over about how if I had one, things would be easier. That going back wouldn't be any big deal. Back then I was hesitant about going into debt, but now I look back and see that many people pass me over for other opportunities because I lacked a degree.
What's wrong with supporting yourself on student loans? If you don't have a degree, and you are unemployed, it's hard to live off of a job were you are working out at the mall for $8.50/hr (I should know....I made that for YEARS). When I was at my highest pay-rate, I paid over $14,000 in taxes to the feds alone in one year. I'm hardly a mooch off of Uncle Sam. I don't pay taxes for my health. I want to reap some benefits like when I am down and out, I can have resources out there and available for me to improve my situation.
Back to the OT, shame on this country for not being more proactive with the student loan system and putting a priority on education. If you are in college to goof off...that is one thing. But I graduated in the top 10% of my HS graduating class of 426 students. I finished by BA with a decent GPA of 3.12 (could have been higher...but I was working 2 jobs AND going to school full-time so I got some C's here and there). I'm now in graduate school with a 3.75 GPA. So why not pro-rate my loans down to give some sort of incentive to those of us who do well academically and who will in turn be great assets to this country in the end?
I don't agree with this. The beauty of living in America is being able to change your social status. If you are smart enough to earn a college degree, why should a lack of resources stop you?
I am one of those people who are back in school, "racking up debt" and "using tax payer money" to earn my MBA. Ironically, I worked professionally BEFORE I earned my BA. But that was ONLY because I knew someone who talked someone into giving me a chance. For 5 years before that I was stuck doing the lowest level retail and food-service jobs. I walked into that real-estate office not knowing a thing; and 4 years later I was the escrow accountant for the firm. But that was nothing but being in the right place at the right time.
That doesn't happen for most people. I had to move 1000 miles away and have lost all of those connections. Therefore I went back for my BA. Why else would anyone think I am qualified enough to bring me on as an employee? Yes, I had experience....but only 4 years and only one professional job. I am competing against others who have bachelor degrees, so to remain competitive, I needed one too.
Now I work at a public university where you just cannot hold a certain position without an advanced degree...so I am working on my master's. I don't lose any sleep at all about going into debt doing so. I am a smart individual and I excel in my courses. And no, it is NOT my fault that my family is poor and that I am also pretty low-income and cannot afford to pay college tuition on my own.
When I didn't have a college degree, people harped on me over and over about how if I had one, things would be easier. That going back wouldn't be any big deal. Back then I was hesitant about going into debt, but now I look back and see that many people pass me over for other opportunities because I lacked a degree.
What's wrong with supporting yourself on student loans? If you don't have a degree, and you are unemployed, it's hard to live off of a job were you are working out at the mall for $8.50/hr (I should know....I made that for YEARS). When I was at my highest pay-rate, I paid over $14,000 in taxes to the feds alone in one year. I'm hardly a mooch off of Uncle Sam. I don't pay taxes for my health. I want to reap some benefits like when I am down and out, I can have resources out there and available for me to improve my situation.
Back to the OT, shame on this country for not being more proactive with the student loan system and putting a priority on education. If you are in college to goof off...that is one thing. But I graduated in the top 10% of my HS graduating class of 426 students. I finished by BA with a decent GPA of 3.12 (could have been higher...but I was working 2 jobs AND going to school full-time so I got some C's here and there). I'm now in graduate school with a 3.75 GPA. So why not pro-rate my loans down to give some sort of incentive to those of us who do well academically and who will in turn be great assets to this country in the end?
Umm...I don't know what you are disagreeing with me over unless you don't plan on paying your loans back? I don't care what you do, but if you support yourself with student loans you eventually need to pay them all back without discharge. That's all I'm saying. It's a chance you are willing to take, with other peoples money, and I'm glad it's set up that way and you can take advantage. It's only later IF you can't pay and think the debt should be discharged ( that isn't other people's fault, like being poor isn't yours) that we will have a problem.
It's non dischargable because it's public money (ie: "my tax dollars"). We fund education for people who, in turn, are supposed to pay it back so we can fund education for the next group. When that breaks down and the money isn't paid back it's basically another government handout. And very easy to take advantage of if you had a mind to do so. I support it being non dischargable and suggest people borrow as little as possible instead of looking to it as a primary means of support while they spend x-number of years in college. There was a thread recently about an out of work teacher who figured they should go get a second masters degree while supporting themselves with student loans because they couldn't find a job. ("hey, I have no job so the best idea is to run up more debt!!") If we use the system this way we have to be held accountable for paying it back.
Everyone wants something for nothing and we cant seem to educate the "stupid" out of people.
The federal student loans were never dischargeable, but the private loans were. I'm pretty sure that in the past the federal loans were capped at about $56,000 per student. Also, the interest rate on them is capped. In general, it's the private loans that could really get out of control and damage people's lives and those were the ones that were made dischargeable.
However, it could be argued that the federal student loans should be made dischargeable as well and that that should act as a brake against irresponsible federal lending. The real problem is that we've completely removed market forces from education financing and the availability of the loans allow the schools to jack up tuition and to operate inefficiently. Higher education itself is very inefficient in that people are allowed to obtain worthless degrees (women's studies, art history, etc.) and the colleges produce far more graduates in certain fields than our nation needs. In efficient markets, the production of goods and services matches the demand much more closely than it does in higher education.
I think we need to completely retool higher education and how we finance it. Right now it's a huge load on our nation's economy in that it is very expensive and inefficient (producing large oversupplies of graduates who cannot find jobs in their fields.)
Being hungry I enter a high class restaurant...have a nice big juicy steak...bottle of vintage Red Wine...Crepes for desert and then when the time comes to pay the bill say that I'm broke and can't pay.
The restaurant paid for the food at the beginng so why should a person consuming it be given a FREE ride just because they were hungry.
Change some of the words if you will but the meaning is still the same.
Having a degree is nice...especially if the person can use it when working.
Too many have a degree that contains a lot of knowledge but is not rewarding enough in the public sector with no demands for their expertise of knowledge.
Okay, didn't something like this happen during the Great Depression? What did FDR do? Maybe we should return to an updated form of his model. Perhaps we should try to create openings for fields that aren't in demand right now, allow federal job placement for desperate graduates, or if that doesn't work, allow graduates with B.F.A. or B.S. degrees in basket weaving and such to go back for at least two years and train for a career in a field that's hiring.
Also, I listened to the podcast, she was talking about private student loans, which carry much higher interest rates. Some of these students were $500,000 or so in debt! Now, that is a problem. I suggest the government and lending agencies put a cap on how much students can borrow based on income and demand that colleges strengthen and expand their work study and career readiness programs.
Last edited by surburbangirlie; 12-18-2010 at 04:55 PM..
The restaurant paid for the food at the beginng so why should a person consuming it be given a FREE ride just because they were hungry.
Change some of the words if you will but the meaning is still the same.
In your view, should lenders be responsible for making bad investments and for enabling people to make bad investments? If a bank begins handing out money willy-nilly and its debtors cannot pay, shouldn't the bank have to eat the cost of its own foolishness?
Are you opposed to the concept of allowing people to go bankrupt so that they can get a fresh start in life after they've made mistakes during their participation in the market, or should they suffer permanent poverty as a result of well-intentioned mistakes made decades ago when they were younger and naive?
Okay, didn't something like this happen during the Great Depression? What did FDR do? Maybe we should return to an updated form of his model. Perhaps we should try to create openings for fields that aren't in demand right now, allow federal job placement for desperate graduates, or if that doesn't work, allow graduates with B.F.A. or B.S. degrees in basket weaving and such to go back for at least two years and train for a career in a field that's hiring.
The problem with retraining everyone for nursing or engineering is that we'd end up having a large oversupply of nurses and engineers. As a nation, we need to grow up and come to grips with the fact that only about 15% of all jobs require or make any real use of college education and that not everyone can be solidly middle class or better. Basically, we need to decrease the amount of people who are going to college.
The nightmare-sized loans come from people who either went to expensive private colleges as undergraduates and/or went to professional school. Law school and business school can cost $30,000-$47,000/year for tuition today. Add $15,000/year for living expenses and it can really add up. (Law school could end up costing you $180,000 and the price of business school could be about $120,000.) If you miss some payments on those private loans, your interest rate could increase and penalties could start to accrue, which is how some people end up having those nightmarish debt figures.
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Life is precious. Anyway, though, yes, that's a pity, but aren't there government programs, volunteer opportunities, merit pay, continued education credit, etc. that would help them get their debt under control? Aren't there programs that pay your student loans for you if you do a certain amount of service to the community once you receive your degree?
