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I don't know what the Left can bite off on, and I think it's irrelevant. The Left has not been a force in American politics for as long as I've been paying attention -- which was roughly the 1992 election. The Democratic Party I grew up with has been the party of Clinton style centrists.
I *like* the tax reforms you're outlining, and I think most Americans do. I don't like corporate welfare, tax loop holes and give-aways, and I don't have a problem with broadening the tax base. You made a very good point that I didn't address on another thread, but I agree with. You said that most Americans would turn against Obama if he repealed all of the Bush tax cuts, not just those on the "wealthy" who are making $250,000. I think you're right, and I think that's sad.
From reading your posts, I think I agree with your general line of thinking. There are some hard choices to make to get the country on the right track. Believe me, I am more than willing to make sacrifices and do what I have to do for the good of the nation. No issues. I can trim back. I understand pitching in and everyone doing their part. I just think I distrust a different group of people than you do.
I don't like freeloaders, but I see them as basically losers who at the end of the day don't have much power. It's the other end of the spectrum who concern me. Those who have plenty of power and influence who are going to somehow rig this game so that I make all of the sacrifices and they get all of the benefits. I trust the Democratic party more than the GOP to keep these people in check.
The Gang of Six debt/deficit outline, building on the President's Commission chaired by Simpson and Bowles, called in a bipartisan centrist fashion for tax reform. In their view, the garbage ought to be taken out of the tax code, thereby widening the base, and lower rates should be applied. End result, higher tax revenues. In the plan, this would be done on both the corporate and individual side of the Code.
We know the tax code is full of junk provisions, carving out favors for owners of NASCAR tracks and the importers of rum. This is an insult in a country that is supposed to honor equal treatment under the law. And why have the highest coporate tax rate in the world, if nobody pays it?
President Obama, speaking today upon signing the debt/deficit deal, announced his intention to go the other direction. He wants to try to extract more money with higher tax rates on "the rich" and removing deductions from corporations. I think we know from experience that high rates prompt taxpayers to change behavior and restructure operations to avoid them. I think we also know from experience that broadening the base and lowering rates has a chance to raise actual revenues.
So the question is whether Obama's approach is central to the Left. Has he turned away from Gang of Six and Simpson Bowles because you demand it? Or does "fairness" to the point of counterproductivity run deep within him already? Can the Left bite off on centrist tax reform?
Removing deductions from corporations is where the "garbage" in the tax code is.
What has the Right done since 2008 to show that they are different or better than Bush? I'll answer that for you: Not one damn thing. In fact, with the presence of the tea party contingent, the regressive party has REGRESSED into an even more right-wing, bigoted version. Not good.
The budget bickering that infuriated the nation exposed the lunacy of the Right to protect the rich. Not good for the GOP. 8 horrific years under Bush of failed policy, followed by 4 years of obstructionist tactics to continue Bush's detrimental effect on the nation, does not bode well for the GOP.
Tremendous edge to the Left. 2012 will see an annihilation of the GOP across the board.
Location: Currently I physically reside on the 3rd planet from the sun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Lexus
What has the Right done since 2008 to show that they are different or better than Bush? I'll answer that for you: Not one damn thing. In fact, with the presence of the tea party contingent, the regressive party has REGRESSED into an even more right-wing, bigoted version. Not good.
The budget bickering that infuriated the nation exposed the lunacy of the Right to protect the rich. Not good for the GOP. 8 horrific years under Bush of failed policy, followed by 4 years of obstructionist tactics to continue Bush's detrimental effect on the nation, does not bode well for the GOP.
Tremendous edge to the Left. 2012 will see an annihilation of the GOP across the board.
hmmmm, so I take it your a Democrat?
I have a question for you though, what has Obama done since 2008 to show that he is any different than Bush?
I have a question for you though, what has Obama done since 2008 to show that he is any different than Bush?
In the context of the OP's question, I think it might not matter.
I think what we have right now is a population experiencing a bad economy and no reason to trust either party to repair it. I mean the Tea Party exists, in part, as a response to the spending spree Republicans went on under Bush. There is a perception the Republican party had control under Bush and still let the people down by spending like "Democrats", and what was needed was to send people to congress who would hold true to financial conservative ideals. Only the Tea Party isn't looking appealing to a mainstream voting population either, mainly because that financially conservative message got mixed in with what plays like extremism of many stripes and a penchant for divisiveness.
Obama got elected partly because people thought he could return things to less combative time, and because people thought he was a smart guy who could pull everyone together to help right the ship. His image is certainly is damaged, but I'm not sure the majority of the voting population thinks he's just like Bush. They may think he's not what he said he was going to be... but it is unclear how much of that is heat of the moment frustration with the debt ceiling mess, since he was polling better right before all this started.
I think we have to see what mood the American public is in come election season. Do they want an end to the yelling? Then the candidate who seems less divisive has an edge, and honesty the Republican slew of candidates are looking like a bunch of lightening rods. Do they want someone who can fix the economy? Of course they will, but a lot of that will depend on what is actually going on with the economy around the time voting starts. Things are way to muddy for me right now to even guess how this is going to play out IMO.
With the massive failure that is President Obama, does anyone think the left can win anything in 2012?
Losing in 2010 was just a start and it seems like the left is in denial over their own failures, particularly the bad economy that they created, the failure of ObamaCare and the lack of effort in order to do anything properly. No leadership, no budget proposals and no answers except to spend more money which clearly the majority of people see as bad. They just seem to be so out of touch with what America wants and the polls and headlines are reflecting that daily.
If so, please provide some sound logic as to what their winning formula will be. Don't bash Republicans or Tea Party folks, just present some of the strengths and positives that the left brings to the table.
Obama's bailout saved the economy. Many see it this way. Republicans obviously do not. If he can argue this point home in debates to independents, he will win easily. If he runs against, say, Perry, it will be even easier as Texas has actually suffered quite a bit under Perry's economic policies. Let's keep in mind that amongst independents, Republicans and Democrats appear to share the blame equally.
Obama got the ball rolling on healthcare. Republicans argue that this has caused insurance premiums to skyrocket, however, insurance premiums haven't gone up more than any other year. This time around, Obamacare was the "excuse".
The tax cut extension to wealthiest Americans is now going on its eighth month. Republicans have sworn up and down this is exactly what is needed to grow jobs. Job growth is stagnant. You can argue it's unfair to judge after seven months, but turnabout is fair play as Republicans were blaming Obama for the economy starting January 20, 2009.
Last, but not least, Obama really REALLY pisses off Republicans. The American populace is generally happy when this happens if it means the fringe is angry. And make no mistake about it, it's the Republicans that have the bulk of the fringe candidates. It used to be the other way around during the Reagan years. Times have changed. I truly believe if not for these fringe Republicans, Obama's popularity would be lower.
With the massive failure that is President Obama, does anyone think the left can win anything in 2012?
Losing in 2010 was just a start and it seems like the left is in denial over their own failures, particularly the bad economy that they created, the failure of ObamaCare and the lack of effort in order to do anything properly. No leadership, no budget proposals and no answers except to spend more money which clearly the majority of people see as bad. They just seem to be so out of touch with what America wants and the polls and headlines are reflecting that daily.
If so, please provide some sound logic as to what their winning formula will be. Don't bash Republicans or Tea Party folks, just present some of the strengths and positives that the left brings to the table.
Sounds like more GOP/TP wishful thinking. Get your head out of Beckistan while there is still time.
Obama came off looking like the only adult in the room. He gained some ground in my eyes when he finally got mad and started pushing Boehner around. I am still mad at him for not holding his ground and demanding at least SOME revenue, but I will be out there voting for him and the rest of the DEM slate come Nov 12. I am equally sure that we will have seen the last of the Bush Tax cuts at the end of 2012.
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Is this a joke?
