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Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 9,682,084 times
Reputation: 2622
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Socialism is one of those words like Christian, the user knows exactly what they mean (maybe) but there are a thousand variations. Generally the political right likes to limit socialism to places like Cuba and Venezuela, forgetting the multitude of nations that happily call themselves socialist.
Quote:
1 Million Strong Against our SOCIALIST Fire DepartmentsCategory:Organizations - Community OrganizationsDescription:For too long now, fire departments across the United States have been SOCIALIST organizations, resulting in TAXES on the American people.
FACT: Most Americans never use the socialized services of the fire department. We have the best fire departments in the world in the US, but that doesn't mean that anyone (even non-US citizens) should be able to dial up and have fires put out, etc. There are private companies (Halliburtion, Etc.) who could step in tomorrow and take over every fire department in America and charge the consumer directly.
This is AMERICA. NO FREE FIRE SAFETY.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in asbestos and carrying a fire hose."
Quote:
Tax-Funded Policing Is Socialism
by Gil Guillory
by Gil Guillory
DIGG THIS
This text is part of a lecture, sponsored by the Libertarian Longhorns, given on 8 September 2008 at the University of Texas.
Quote:
Was the US Highway Interstate system a Socialist Program?
Championed and funded by a Republican President and Congress in 1956, the US Highway/Freeway Interstate system is the largest in the world at 46,876 miles.It ended up costing $425 billion, a lot of money in 1956. Is it a Socialist Program though? Should those who hate Socialism not drive on it?
And is the Highway system no obsolete? Should we fund a High-Speed Rail system as large as the Federal Highway system?
…
LG
Best Answer - Chosen by Asker
Yes it was. It was funded 90% by Federal taxes and 10% by state taxes. And yes we need to build the same type of system with High Speed trains. That is the future...the car culture is over.
Socialism is always good when a Republican does it, always bad when a Democrat does it.
Bottom line, it's always good for the country, no matter if the whinny Repukes hate it.
Quote:
Finally, consider some of the examples of socialism: the military complex of the United States is almost a perfect example of pure socialism. So is the highway system. Airports and airlines. The fact that most public toilets are free and available to everyone is a kind of socialism. Free roads and highways are socialist (toll roads are capitalist). Tell me if this analysis is wrong: this is how I see it. Social security is basically a form of socialism. FEMA is socialist.
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 9,682,084 times
Reputation: 2622
Socialism is one of those words like Christian, the user knows exactly what they mean (maybe) but there are a thousand variations. Generally the political right likes to limit socialism to places like Cuba and Venezuela, forgetting the multitude of nations that happily call themselves socialist.
Quote:
1 Million Strong Against our SOCIALIST Fire DepartmentsCategory:Organizations - Community OrganizationsDescription:For too long now, fire departments across the United States have been SOCIALIST organizations, resulting in TAXES on the American people.
FACT: Most Americans never use the socialized services of the fire department. We have the best fire departments in the world in the US, but that doesn't mean that anyone (even non-US citizens) should be able to dial up and have fires put out, etc. There are private companies (Halliburtion, Etc.) who could step in tomorrow and take over every fire department in America and charge the consumer directly.
This is AMERICA. NO FREE FIRE SAFETY.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in asbestos and carrying a fire hose."
Quote:
Tax-Funded Policing Is Socialism
by Gil Guillory
by Gil Guillory
DIGG THIS
This text is part of a lecture, sponsored by the Libertarian Longhorns, given on 8 September 2008 at the University of Texas.
Quote:
Was the US Highway Interstate system a Socialist Program?
Championed and funded by a Republican President and Congress in 1956, the US Highway/Freeway Interstate system is the largest in the world at 46,876 miles.It ended up costing $425 billion, a lot of money in 1956. Is it a Socialist Program though? Should those who hate Socialism not drive on it?
And is the Highway system no obsolete? Should we fund a High-Speed Rail system as large as the Federal Highway system?
…
LG
Best Answer - Chosen by Asker
Yes it was. It was funded 90% by Federal taxes and 10% by state taxes. And yes we need to build the same type of system with High Speed trains. That is the future...the car culture is over.
Socialism is always good when a Republican does it, always bad when a Democrat does it.
Bottom line, it's always good for the country, no matter if the whinny Repukes hate it.
Quote:
Finally, consider some of the examples of socialism: the military complex of the United States is almost a perfect example of pure socialism. So is the highway system. Airports and airlines. The fact that most public toilets are free and available to everyone is a kind of socialism. Free roads and highways are socialist (toll roads are capitalist). Tell me if this analysis is wrong: this is how I see it. Social security is basically a form of socialism. FEMA is socialist.
Brown is right, but he's talking about just Obama when it seems like killing America is their real intention.
I think Jerry Brown finally gets it but that enlightened bookworm in DC is still too fixated on the idea that he can bring both sides around a campfire and they wil roast marshmellows and nicely work things out...
No Mr Obama, this is not a Hollywood movie. The GOPs two-fold objective since you were elected is
1. to destroy your chances in 2012, even if that means destroying the entire nation in the process.
2. protect the interests of the rich at any cost.
They are not interested in building the economy, they are not interested in improving our quality of life, they are not interested in anything that actually serves to strengthen our common bond as Americans. They arent even interested in the lives of their own middle class. Its almost cannibalistic.
The biggest shame in all of this is that their rank and file is too blinded by their rhetoric to see what's going on right in front of their eyes. I will never get that.
What should Obama's message be and what should the Dems message be in 2012?
Point Blank: The GOP is not only standing in the way of America's growth, but they are are actually sabotaging it.
I'm not convinced at this point in time however, that President Obama has the internal fortitude to stand up to them, since he seems to cave horrendously to all of their demands over, and over, and over, and over again--in some stupid attempt to meet them in the middle but instead the line that defines 'the middle' is squarely in the far right.
Enough with the touch football Mr President, its time to tackle.
This is exactly the reason that now more than ever Democrats need to stand firm and President Obama needs to get out the boxing gloves and mount a severe blow against the GOP and the TPers.
It seems neither you nor .highnlite understand it either. Building roads, infrastructure, providing security (police, fire, national defense), and most of the things cited are not marks of socialism. None of those things indicate government ownership or control of means of production. None of those activities directly create a cooperative economy.
Government ownership of General Motors is closer to socialism. French/UK/German ownership of Airbus is another example.
Or of course Cuba and Venezuela.
I don't think Obama is a socialist nor really wants to turn the USA into a socialist economy. I don't think he wants to see the government develop software, computers, chips, TVs, smartphones, or airplanes.
I dont want really want socialism either, but what do we do when corporations ship jobs by the millions overseas because its cheaper.
What is our option? To lower the standard of living here to entice them to bring those jobs back?
Or does our economy evolve to the next level...whatever that may be? I dunno but whatever we're doing now seems to not be working.
The only thing I know is that a country gets in deep trouble when it stops making things and it seems that many things which should be made here are made in China, and not just cheap junk, but complex things such as computers and bridges that bothers the hell out of me.
I don't get it... why do people still need the need to blame republicans? Didn't the libs have a super majority for 2 years? They could've passed anything they wanted instead drove the country deeper into sh_t. Added over a trillion to the national debt, didn't do anything for the economy, nothing major was finalized.
The reason we are in this mess is because of PC liberal banking polices from the late 90's and early 2000's in regards to letting everyone under the sun apply for housing loans even though they didn't deserve it. They defaulted and the domino effect occurred. Its not rocket science.
Brown is right, but he's talking about just Obama when it seems like killing America is their real intention.
Of course. They have said that destroying Obama is their top priority. Welfare of America, and American people is just collateral damage they are willing to sacrifice.
I dont want really want socialism either, but what do we do when corporations ship jobs by the millions overseas because its cheaper.
What is our option? To lower the standard of living here to entice them to bring those jobs back?
Or does our economy evolve to the next level...whatever that may be? I dunno but whatever we're doing now seems to not be working.
The only thing I know is that a country gets in deep trouble when it stops making things and it seems that many things which should be made here are made in China, and not just cheap junk, but complex things such as computers and bridges that bothers the hell out of me.
I have serious concerns too. But a government takeover of (insert industry here) isn't the answer. Wages should rise and fall globally. US wages, propped up by decades of union contracts, created incentive for companies to find cheaper labor. In the face of automation and competition, US labor's wages should have fallen to compensate.
US consumers have been living beyond their means for years, and that fuels a demand for credit (and the risk that goes with it).
I think immigration reform has a role in protecting the quality of life. Reducing the supply of workers that will work for low wages should cause wages in those industries to rise to attract workers. I think we should educate fewer foreigners - those that occupy our computer science and engineering school seats in massive numbers.
I think our whole way of living needs a breather. If we weren't so addicted to cheap goods, there would be less incentive to move work offshore. We need a slowdown, and it is happening. People come to the US for jobs, and it isn't just agriculture and construction.
None of this can happen instantly although some is happening now. I would simplify taxation - which eliminates the loopholes the wealthy can take advantage of. Overall tax collection should increase, without a big change in tax rates. I would reduce corporate taxes so more corporate income is kept in the US.
Democrats need to circle the wagons and fight off the Republicans/TPers. The GOP has openly stated from day one that they wanted to destroy President Obama. They made no secret of that fact. And I have no doubt that the S&P downgrade was the result of a backroom meeting between the good ole boys.
I dont want really want socialism either, but what do we do when corporations ship jobs by the millions overseas because its cheaper.
What is our option? To lower the standard of living here to entice them to bring those jobs back?
Or does our economy evolve to the next level...whatever that may be? I dunno but whatever we're doing now seems to not be working.
The only thing I know is that a country gets in deep trouble when it stops making things and it seems that many things which should be made here are made in China, and not just cheap junk, but complex things such as computers and bridges that bothers the hell out of me.
Congratulations, if you accept that human societies evolve from one social-economic-political level attempting to apply a philiosophy advanced to explain nature you have understood one of the foundations of Marxism! Marx accepted that human history has a vector we evolved from hunter-gatherers, to an agrarian society, then to capitalism. In each the complexity, interdependence, technology and wealth increased. We invented money, banks, the idea of the limited liability corporation, insurance to deal with problems as they arose. Marx called this the Theory of Dialectical Materialism and viewed Capitalism as just another milestone on the great road of human history. It will serve its purpose and be discarded when it is no longer needed. Marx viewed Capitalism as a tool to address the fundamental issue in economics the Allocation Problem and decide who gets what when there is not enough to go around. Marx was an optimist who believed that technology would make the idea of scarcity a thing of the past and when it did, there would be no need for market places prices or wages. Think of the replicators, transporters and holodecks of Star Trek. Before Capitalism ended Marx predicted that technology would squeeze out most of society from the marketplace since their labor would not be needed by corporations. It would create a large underclass, the surplus labor force who would not passively accept their fate in a world of great wealth and possibility. Capitalism would create the means for its destruction and out of the wreckage a new new hopeful more humane world would arise. Now Marxists argue about the wisdom of just sitting back and letting history take its course or could the process be accelerated or the transformative change be launched in a society not economically ready for it (The difference between classical Marxists and Leninists or Maoists).
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