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Old 08-14-2011, 01:40 PM
 
3,484 posts, read 2,870,931 times
Reputation: 2354

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ergohead View Post
Careful, what's over your head oftentimes lands on your head.
You're not as funny or as cute as you think you are. You're just paranoid, ignorant, sexist and arrogant. Go away. There are lots of people in this world who cannot can get vaccinated because of an underlying medical condition. When you advocate against vaccination for everyone else you directly endanger their lives. Shame on you!

 
Old 08-14-2011, 01:46 PM
 
19,226 posts, read 15,314,292 times
Reputation: 2337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
You're not as funny or as cute as you think you are. You're just paranoid, ignorant, sexist and arrogant. Go away. There are lots of people in this world who cannot can get vaccinated because of an underlying medical condition. When you advocate against vaccination for everyone else you directly endanger their lives. Shame on you!
You're NOT going to get me to tell you what happened between me and Dr. Fauci last Thursday!
 
Old 08-14-2011, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,443 posts, read 61,352,754 times
Reputation: 30387
Everything kills.

Orange juice is thought of as being good for all. But I imagine that even OJ has killed a few people.

A small percentage are allergic to peanuts and will die from peanut oil being in their food. However the vast majority are not allergic to peanuts. So for most people peanuts are healthy, but for a few people peanuts will kill them.

A percentage of people will die from measles. Another percentage will come away from measles stronger.

The history of the European peoples is one of disease after disease, and the end effect was a stronger people. When this stronger people left Europe to explore and colonize, the indigenous peoples they met were not immune to the same diseases. So they died from contact with Europeans. They were weaker. Today the end result is that the salad bowl mix of peoples is stronger. All of those diseases both killed and they made people stronger.

Once a doctor was advising me on the pros and cons of having a vasectomy. Vasectomies cause a higher incidence of heart disease, they kill people. However the perceived benefit to society is such that the benefit is seen as out-weighing the loss. If 1% dies from the side-effects of the procedure it is a small price to pay, for the perceived benefit to society.

Some people are allergic to penicillin. Penicillin can kill people. Debate this all you wish to, but it is fact. Penicillin also helps people. If this one drug kills 1% of the people it is given to, and it helps 90% of the people it is given to, we all say that the small amount of deaths are okay, because the benefit outweighs them.

Every vaccine made will have some percentage who are allergic to it, or who will have a freak reaction, or a side-effect. Every vaccine known to man will kill some people. Every vaccine kills. It is also thought that vaccines may cause benefits to society that are beneficial. IT is thought that the benefits outweigh the deaths.

But do not get in the face of a father or mother of one of those deaths and tell them that their child did not die. Do not try to tell anyone who has been closely effected by a vaccine death, that vaccines do not kill.

I am a very lucky man. I have received nearly every vaccine known to man, and I am still alive. I have had all of the vaccines for world-wide travel. I have had test vaccines for various strains of hepatitis, as well as the anthrax vaccine. I have seen co-workers succumb to these vaccines. I deal with men now who are trying to live with the side-effects of vaccines. As chaplain for my VFW post I also do their funerals.
 
Old 08-14-2011, 02:08 PM
 
3,484 posts, read 2,870,931 times
Reputation: 2354
There is no evidence that the measles vaccine kills people. However actual cases of measles kill people all the time unfortunately. Surviving the disease does not make you stronger. It may make you immune. It may also steal your hearing or your brain cells or your eyesight. A bout of measles usually left people far weaker than before they had the diseases. Measles can take months to fully recover from. People who spend days in bed sick as heck are not stronger as a result.

Why are the facts on vaccination so difficult for people to comprehend?

Yes, the Europeans were stronger than some natives Americans. They were also weaker than others. A factory worker in Manchester laboring twelve hours a day starting at six was not better off than a Plains Indian well nourished from local ingredients and strong from hours on a horse. The only advantage the factory worker had initially was that he had survived measles infection. But doing so do did not inherently make him a stronger person long term. It may have benefited his society by providing a biological weapon for his countrymen when they invaded North America. It did not particularly benefit him personally.

The millions of kids who still unfortunately get measles each year because of lack of access to vaccination are not better off as a result.
 
Old 08-14-2011, 02:12 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,852 posts, read 35,120,143 times
Reputation: 22695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
Measles infects close to 30 million children each year and kills almost 350,000. Yeah, I bet those 350,000 dead children benefitted greatly from that infection!

UNICEF - Immunization - Reducing measles mortality
It is a tragic fact of life that children die. Children with compromised immune systems, children who are malnourished, children who do not have clean drinking water, children who are infected with parasites, etc., will probably succumb to measles. If the measles don't get them, chances are something else will. But the children who survive are strong!

Humanity was CREATED and allowed to FLOURISH by the primal law of "survival of the fittest", do you think that it is right that humanity should interfere in a process that has perfect itself over billions of years? I don't. Yes, it's sad when it is a child. Yes it is even sadder when it is YOUR child - or YOU!!!!!

I will be accused, I know, of jumping on the eugenics bandwagon with this one, but when you interfere with nature, you only weaken the gene pool and ultimately destroy the species bit by bit.

Let the chips fall where they may, I say.

20yrsinBranson
 
Old 08-14-2011, 02:23 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,852 posts, read 35,120,143 times
Reputation: 22695
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post

I am a very lucky man. I have received nearly every vaccine known to man, and I am still alive. I have had all of the vaccines for world-wide travel. I have had test vaccines for various strains of hepatitis, as well as the anthrax vaccine. I have seen co-workers succumb to these vaccines. I deal with men now who are trying to live with the side-effects of vaccines. As chaplain for my VFW post I also do their funerals.
Having been in the military and receiving my full complement of vaccinations I now realize how foolish and ignorant I was at the time. The problem is that so many of us are raised to believe what we are spoon fed by conventional medicine. So many people never dare question or even THINK to question what they are told. It is only after many, many years of reading and reading and listening and watching that you come to realize that in their eyes we are simply here to provide an outlet for drug therapy and expensive (and usually unnecessary and ineffective) medical procedures.

People MUST take the time and make the effort to educate themselves to the truth. I am so amazed that, so far, my exposure to vaccinations and conventional medicine in the past has not resulted in something life-threatening. But I know, that if that does happen, I now have the knowledge I need to fight it and win. It saddens me the people who refuse to open their eyes.

I have known so many people who fail to question or learn and they suffer horribly and unnecessarily at the end of their lives.

20yrsinBranson
 
Old 08-14-2011, 02:25 PM
 
3,484 posts, read 2,870,931 times
Reputation: 2354
Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
It is a tragic fact of life that children die. Children with compromised immune systems, children who are malnourished, children who do not have clean drinking water, children who are infected with parasites, etc., will probably succumb to measles. If the measles don't get them, chances are something else will. But the children who survive are strong!

Humanity was CREATED and allowed to FLOURISH by the primal law of "survival of the fittest", do you think that it is right that humanity should interfere in a process that has perfect itself over billions of years? I don't. Yes, it's sad when it is a child. Yes it is even sadder when it is YOUR child - or YOU!!!!!

I will be accused, I know, of jumping on the eugenics bandwagon with this one, but when you interfere with nature, you only weaken the gene pool and ultimately destroy the species bit by bit.

Let the chips fall where they may, I say.

20yrsinBranson
It's very simple. Measles vaccination would save those kid's lives. I am horrified that you are so dismissive of their deaths.

But that's the anti-vaccine movement for you. Imaginary deaths from vaccines are worth crying over. Real deaths from lack of access to vaccines are simply shrugged off.
 
Old 08-14-2011, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Inland Levy County, FL
8,806 posts, read 6,107,072 times
Reputation: 2949
I wonder how the anti-vaxers feel about all the antibiotics being forced upon factory farm animals. That poses a much, MUCH bigger threat to public health than getting vaccines but yet you see no outrage over that.

I definitely side with the folks here who advocate FOR vaccination. As a pregnant woman, this is a decision I have researched over the past few months. I'm skeptical on pretty much everything and enjoy doing research but there is not one thing out there that would make me skip vax for our daughter.

The tinfoils hats need to be removed, seriously.
 
Old 08-14-2011, 02:32 PM
 
3,484 posts, read 2,870,931 times
Reputation: 2354
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrea3821 View Post
I wonder how the anti-vaxers feel about all the antibiotics being forced upon factory farm animals. That poses a much, MUCH bigger threat to public health than getting vaccines but yet you see no outrage over that.

I definitely side with the folks here who advocate FOR vaccination. As a pregnant woman, this is a decision I have researched over the past few months. I'm skeptical on pretty much everything and enjoy doing research but there is not one thing out there that would make me skip vax for our daughter.

The tinfoils hats need to be removed, seriously.
Good for you. Your little girl will be better off vaccinated if she can be. My eldest children have had all their shots. Both are in the very top percentiles in both math and reading.

Some terrific sources online for you right here:

All Information on Vaccines and Vaccination - Allied Vaccine Group
 
Old 08-14-2011, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Sarasota, FL
1,695 posts, read 3,043,336 times
Reputation: 1143
Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
It is a tragic fact of life that children die. Children with compromised immune systems, children who are malnourished, children who do not have clean drinking water, children who are infected with parasites, etc., will probably succumb to measles. If the measles don't get them, chances are something else will. But the children who survive are strong!

Humanity was CREATED and allowed to FLOURISH by the primal law of "survival of the fittest", do you think that it is right that humanity should interfere in a process that has perfect itself over billions of years? I don't. Yes, it's sad when it is a child. Yes it is even sadder when it is YOUR child - or YOU!!!!!

I will be accused, I know, of jumping on the eugenics bandwagon with this one, but when you interfere with nature, you only weaken the gene pool and ultimately destroy the species bit by bit.

Let the chips fall where they may, I say.

20yrsinBranson
I am SHOCKED that a person can be this cold and uncaring about the lives of other human beings! SHOCKED!
Children do not die from contaminted water if the water is properly treated. Just because 200 years ago it wasn't is no excuse to not treat the water now. Heck, even then, they knew to BOIL water. THat even "interfered with nature." Do you not ever turn on your tap and drink the water? Or wash in it? That water was Treated. It "interfered with nature."

If you get sick, do you not go to a doctor? EVER? Have you never taken an aspirin? Never cooked your food (cooking interferes with nature, too - wild animals, and humans, ate RAW food. Is your diet entirely raw and natural?

If your child has a 104 fever, do you just hold the child and say "Oh you poor baby! Your ancestors thousands of years ago did not have the treatments we have now darling, and they died if they picked up a bug. So my dear, I don't want to interfere with nature. I guess you'll have to die too. But maybe you won't die - maybe you'll come out of this severely brain damaged as a result of the high fever. You and society will then be so much stronger for it."
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