Is a Fascist Strain Rising in America? (John Kerry, ethics, accuse)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Hardly. The far right has fixed on a Christian, laisse-faire, pro-military, hubristic, preemptive, combative model of dialogue that is closer to it than the current government. Obama is not a nationalist, nor is he a dictator, he is far too accomodating for that, nor does he ignore science. The Tea Party, in constrast, hits a number of notes.
I did not say we were there yet, but the far right rhetoric increasingly has that flavor.
You are complaining because you are finding strong opposition to your progressive agenda. Get used to it. We're called "right", for a reason.
Obama and the progressives, like you, salivate at dividing us into little groups, with special interests, special privileges, warring over class envy.
You hate the tea party because you can't control them. They can't be bought off, they don't want anything from you, and you can't take anything away from them as punishment. They are patriotic individuals demanding a less oppresive government that supports indivdual freedom. We have become slaves to our gov't.
Obama would love to be King, but we won't let that happen. As it is, it will take decades and generations to repair the damage he is imposing upon us.
Thank God for the tea party!
Last edited by claudhopper; 08-14-2011 at 02:37 AM..
YES they DID! Abandon all protective measures for trade imbalances claiming it to be a boom- it wasn't. It was a deliberate dumbing down, lowering of standards, and undervaluation of all things not top 5% elite. It was chop shop economy hocking the family jewels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475
What they tried to do was keep your standard of living.
Through short sighted immediate gratification plans. Uncle Ronnie was handing out lollipops to kids in exchange for their inheritance. Quite an actor. They thought dad was trustworthy. Dumb mutts. Teaching for the test= Reaganomics. Go on and check. That's exactly when that paradigm took over schools nationally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475
Currently we're 4.5% of the world's population and we consume approximately 1/4 of the resources.
Correct! Thanks to globalization and BS disposable society business paradigms, I've got a million shelves of cheap sh*t from china to choose from, and all of it is a non choice. Millions of shelves of nothing I want, and especially, nothing a human being needs to achieve self sufficiency. All of it feeds trans national corporations at the expense of local business. It feeds another nation at the expense of Americans on the bottom having rungs of the ladder cut off and no way up and out, aggravated by illegal immigrant subculture. We've only smeared poverty around creating international nomad cultures chasing down greener grass.
It's the same mentality of importing cheap labor through illegal immigration. They're only killing the very thing they came for in the first place instead of planting the seeds where they are and fostering it with investments and history lessons of our own to help them dodge pot holes along the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475
If China were to be Americanized, meaning they live up to the same standard of living we currently have, then the U.S. and China combined would use 174% of the world's resources.
This is a foolish statement and you know it. Clearly the only way 3rd world was going to be able to raise itself and the globe approach more parity was to work smarter, not harder. Global resources have to stretch further, and more importantly, renewable resources need massive investiture creating new industries that aren't in the business of creating monopolies/ hoarding. Every nation needs to be living within it's means as does every global citizen. That can't ever happen with short sighted businessmen content to run resources into the ground for a hamburger today.
So long as lawless nations unto themselves (transnational corps) are permitted to dictate the terms of commerce, farmers will continue to see 2% take of the retail price and the weasel pushing papers across a desk gets 90%. You and I didn't write those rules, and neither have sovereign nations, but price fixing is entrenched in commodities markets despite your naive notions of free market economies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475
We can find more efficient ways which will help but the end results are the same.
Results are the same if you keep doing business the same way. Divorcing companies from the nations/ communities they operate in is an ethical disaster. International corporations are nothing more than manicured pirates wreaking havoc on international relations playing one nation off another. Zero sum games played once too often have reliable consequences. A corporation, or any one individual on the globe, has no business having so much $$$$$ power they can inflict themselves on sovereign nations.
Business models had to tighten up standards to advance/ expand civilization to more equitable dynamics. Not relax them to the point of global banana republic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475
One of the first bubbles that were created that we feel today was when government created Fannie Mae in the 30's and started pushing home ownership. Sounds good on the surface but now you can see how silly it was trying to control the market. The prices of houses are way out of whack of where they should be.
However I agree that since the eighties we've been living on bubble after bubble too. First the technology bubble from the Reagan spending on defense. Then the housing bubble and even a student loan bubble all coming from GSEs.
That's like blaming the baby that was born from its parents actions one night.
Indiana Jones - Swordman Vs. Indiana - YouTube
You're talking yourself into jail again. Boom and bust - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
That's just a primer course on credit boom and bust, all of which is a contrivance disruptive to everyday people beneficial only to a handful of master manipulators. It in no way begins to describe the beast on wall street profiteering from strife. In it's basest carnal appetite, it CREATES stampedes because it doesn't make near the amount of money it wants unless money is moving in volumes, and rapidly, in both directions playing one side off the other. This is the aftermath of deregulation allowing feeding frenzies to run amok for decades. Uncle Ronnie cashed in world class business ethics for lollipops.
You're blaming the government for what commerce unregulated does. Governments job is to provide stable basis for commerce. Not to provide the basis for legalized theft or defend hoarders at any price. This is the lesson libertarians refuse to learn, and all you've taken for granted presuming things take care of themselves. They don't. You just had no idea how many people you had to thank for services rendered because they never asked for accolades. It's the same ignorant argument of atheists insisting morality mysteriously birthed itself spontaneously denying the centuries of cultivation from religious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475
The Tea Party is only around because of the deficits and debt.
Unadulterated BS. No peep out of them for 8yrs while drunken prostitutes ran amok. No furrowed brows with the inception of a trillion dollar creation of homeland terrorism. Not even a whimper when a billion up and disappeared in Iraq. Corporate welfare gets defended by Tea with religious fervor?? The hysterics started the moment a black man came in office for a reason. All criticism irrational, all blame deliberately misdirected to allow criminals to continue on acting as their new best friend. All talking points installed by Koch Birch society.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475
They are around because the realization that America is on the decline is starting to set in.
No more lollipops??? We want our Uncle Ronnie!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475
It's the growing opposition to the status quo in Washington who don't seem to understand that debt does matter and where they spend money matters too.
IF that were so massive shrink of extraneous military installations abroad would be on the auction block. IF that were so cost plus contracts would cease and desist instantly. If that were so cutting the money cord for campaign finance and lobbyists would be a high priority. IF that were so protectionist stance would be asserted; the borders would be tightened up to offset economic slow down by correcting global trade imbalance. They're too damned ignorant of the system in DC to understand what legalized bribery is or how it got there in the first place but throwing tantrums for lollipops is close enough for people who couldn't pass the entrance exam of legal immigrants.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475
That means we can barely keep or defense industry and any of the welfare programs we do have will have to be corrected too because they're all unfunded.
If we kept SS, Medicare and the prescription drug liability those projects alone are unfunded by $115 trillion and growing.
The progressive fantasy is coming to a screeching halt with the realization of what's occurred over the past 100 years of "progress."
You sent jackasses to DC for 30yrs shooting at the economic engines of every major metropolis and turn around blaming the engines and how progressives ruined them? Priceless!
The only fantasy going on here is the fantasy you have about progressive objectives.
The defense industry was funded just fine for reality based wars. Not for wars declared to infinity and beyond as cats paw of oil conglomerations, mercenaries for hire, or private contractor bonanzas. The defense industry was funded just fine before they made corporate welfare queens of themselves and had nothing but incentive to create wars to exponentially increase their take home pay. Tea won't utter a word about military waste even as Vets die of neglect while contractors live the high life in cayman islands.
SS was funded just fine until expansions of eligible candidates were not matched by expansions of contributions. Lifelong stay at home moms paid what into that system? Cuban refuges paid what into that system? SS was designed to pay for itself and has been undermined for decades by republicans handing out lollipops and dipping their hands into it as if it were a slush fund. It's a legitimate entitlement program that's been exploited by people intending to drive it into the ground just like everything else in this country. Why? Because it's profitable to do so, to hell with people.
Newsflash-- prescription drug liability would miraculously find it's budget righted the moment we cap the profits pharmaceutical companies can make on each sale and/or change the terms proprietary patents are protected. Are you in any way aware of the premiums they charge Americans for no other reason than just because we're Americans? How do you think walmart managed to do an end run around them and deliver $4 scripts?
Why, here's 3.5 billion just laying around in the sofa cushions... American Drugs are Price Fixed to Keep Them Expensive
Weasel "value creation" scamming health care systems Prescription Drug Price Gouging Results From FDA Practices | Reimagine America
American subsidy of global pharma INTERNATIONAL PRESCRIPTION DRUG COST CONTAINMENT STRATEGIES AND SUGGESTIONS FOR REFORM IN THE UNITED STATES
This is just the tip of the iceberg ignored wholesale while tea R's and think tank propaganda launch hysterical non arguments about euthanasia. There's plenty more reform due the entire health care industry but that will also devolve into non argument gibberish.
Lets stick with pharma. Pay billions extra to compensate for R&D why? When was the last time these clown cured anything? They're in the business of keeping people chained to pills in symptom management. Not curing anything. This is what happens when you tamper with business ethics to such a degree they become insatiable vampires of civilization. How long before they turn the bend to nuttersville and start creating diseases so they can appear as heroes offering yet another program of symptom management to their repertoire?
You egged on the creation of monsters, Jon, and you still don't want to believe you're guilty but you absolutely are. You've failed to see what each side was legitimately defending all along and got played. The only job you're left doing now is continue calling in fires to the wrong addresses and perpetuate the misdirection of blame until there is nothing left to defend.
Break every allegiance. Break the allegiance of states fiscally pitting them against one another. Break the allegiance of counties vying for resources. Break the allegiance of citizens to their communities and their countrymen. Break the allegiance of families to one another in generational blame games. Break the allegiance parents have to their children, and children to their parents. Worship yourselves. Prey on one another. It's pure evil and there's no excuse left any of you.
The middle class bailed out the "too big to fail" banking elite though taxation and especially through more debt. The far right (and the far left for that matter) are against these fascist bailouts, it's only the loved moderates who "work together for the American people in the grand spirit of compromise" who voted for them.
Middle class has been taking it in the shorts from both ends for decades. Don't kid yourself.
This is where rabid extremes got us willing to cut the baby in half to get their way. TARP only made sense if it was followed by financial reforms which have been blocked by far right protecting thieves. The entire right wing of the spectrum is morally bankrupt and has no valid place in politics any longer.
No way the left is fascist. We are far too wimpy and unorganized. Besides the welfare state peaked in the 1970s and has been retreating for 40 years.
Nice try.
Wrong... record numbers of people on assistance right now and much higher numbers of poor now than in the 70's
And no, I am not blaming Obama alone, the making of a nation that is increasingly poor and desperate has been the one area where GOP and Dems are together on
This forum is a very small section of the American people and tends to attract people "looking for a fight". The general population of the US is/has been trending towards more enlightened views for a while.
No worries
You are kidding right?
I hope so because the country was much more enlightened in the 80's than today.
No, unfortunately, we have been headed backwards since the mid 90's culturally
I agree. This place plays host to some really extreme and underdeveloped mindsets. When I go out in the world and simply talk to people I don't find the fear, despair and end of the world talk at all. I have a wide variety of acquaintances, with varying degrees of political and social beliefs and none of them are this alarmed or hyped up.
The people that come here, do so because their are frustrated with their lives and need an enemy. There are obviously bigger underlying problems with them.
You are correct.... the Democrats have a HUGE list of enemies
Bush, the rich, the religious, fast food, entrepreneurs, the middle class, Republicans, the Jewish, the military and so on
Republicans also have a pretty big list as well
Obama, Hollywood, San Francisco, the Kennedys, green energy, the middle class, the poor, and so on
The 2 party system with lots of help from the media have driven a huge wedge between the American people. All I see from much of this forum is extrem ignorance from "party only voters" from BOTH the right and left
Much as your think tank has revised history to suit it's treacherous agenda, liberals did not author original sin, nor did libs create dysfunctional families predating any political ideology. More deflection... how original.
Red states have failed to thrive and have been the welfare queens you accuse for 2 centuries and counting. There's no genuine basis for business because your business ethics are rotten to the core. Imposing your rotten ethics on mass scale aren't accomplishing anything beyond spreading syphilis around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper
salivate at dividing us into little groups, with special interests, special privileges, warring over class envy.
You hate the tea party because you can't control them. They can't be bought off
And this gem is a confession, as are all statements made by conservatives incapable of owning responsibility for anything they do.
You are splinter groups united by FOX think tanks hoping to pull all the disparate tribes together in time for Rick Perry to be installed to finish America off. All of you expect special privileges, most of them justified as religious beliefs that should be inflicted on free society to extend your gated community mentalities universally. Class envy is non existent in blue state economies that are symbiotic in nature. That is to say, they do not espouse predatory habits as a culture the way red states do. Class envy is happening from red states towards blue states. Meth trailers aren't in San fran, NYC, or Chicago. The tea party was bought and created when Murdoch acquired his media empire. They do the bidding of a kangaroo who has no allegiance to USA save for the money it might make him. He doesn't care anymore than Meg Whitman could bother to vote for 28yrs.
Tea party and rabid right wing are programmed traitors.
Last edited by harborlady; 08-14-2011 at 03:43 AM..
I hope so because the country was much more enlightened in the 80's than today.
No, unfortunately, we have been headed backwards since the mid 90's culturally
Kinda reminds me of the days before internet (Early 90's)when we would hardly talk politics until a month before the election then we'd go out and vote for the guy we thought would do the best job then forget about it for another 4 years,
So i wonder if this perceived fascism is just a result of too many armchair political experts expressing their precious political views on forums and other forms of social media and if the internet were taken out of the equation if people would go back to being less stressed about political issues..
You've got such an elevated and ridiculous self entitlement mentality that you could never possibly see or understand the world around you. Your life and standard of living are coming down because of the ridiculous mentality that you have in thinking you could afford entitlement city in the first place.
How can people call this nation "rich" and "great" when for the past 100 years progressives have spent and strapped programs to us to the hilt and it's all manifested from the mentality of life will always be grand and the market will always be up. Housing prices must never fall.
It has fallen, it is falling and the average standard of living for the entire planet would leave Americans living with only 1/4 of what they do now, what a shame.
And you go viral because you couldn't go protectionist and throw up trade tariffs and even larger borders. Everything is equalizing out and the "west" is paying dearly for their atrociously entitled mentality.
Correct! Thanks to globalization and BS disposable society business paradigms, I've got a million shelves of cheap sh*t from china to choose from, and all of it is a non choice. Millions of shelves of nothing I want, and especially, nothing a human being needs to achieve self sufficiency. All of it feeds trans national corporations at the expense of local business. It feeds another nation at the expense of Americans on the bottom having rungs of the ladder cut off and no way up and out, aggravated by illegal immigrant subculture. We've only smeared poverty around creating international nomad cultures chasing down greener grass.
You're way too bloated and full of yourself. Americans went in droves to buy the cheapest thing. It's called market forces and they're unstoppable. You can slow them down for a bit but the market always wins. Ask France right now who is trying to stop short sales just so they can keep their national bank.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady
It's the same mentality of importing cheap labor through illegal immigration. They're only killing the very thing they came for in the first place instead of planting the seeds where they are and fostering it with investments and history lessons of our own to help them dodge pot holes along the way.
You're going to have to do something to get out of debt. Right now the only choice that even looks remotely possible is to take on as many immigrants as you can and tax them and with the way the debt is ballooning out of control you might want to reinstate the draft.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady
This is a foolish statement and you know it. Clearly the only way 3rd world was going to be able to raise itself and the globe approach more parity was to work smarter, not harder. Global resources have to stretch further, and more importantly, renewable resources need massive investiture creating new industries that aren't in the business of creating monopolies/ hoarding. Every nation needs to be living within it's means as does every global citizen. That can't ever happen with short sighted businessmen content to run resources into the ground for a hamburger today.
It would have been grand if we had helped them out. We didn't. We did exactly to the third world what we did to our indians and to slaves. We used them for everything they had and then dumped them when they were no longer useful.
We could have built up their countries and started trading with them but we don't like competition on our front.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady
Results are the same if you keep doing business the same way. Divorcing companies from the nations/ communities they operate in is an ethical disaster. International corporations are nothing more than manicured pirates wreaking havoc on international relations playing one nation off another. Zero sum games played once too often have reliable consequences. A corporation, or any one individual on the globe, has no business having so much $$$$$ power they can inflict themselves on sovereign nations.
Business models had to tighten up standards to advance/ expand civilization to more equitable dynamics. Not relax them to the point of global banana republic.
America is an international corporation, or couldn't you tell. You could save a lot of space here on CD by starting a blog so you can bloviate to yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady
Indiana Jones - Swordman Vs. Indiana - YouTube
You're talking yourself into jail again. Boom and bust - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
That's just a primer course on credit boom and bust, all of which is a contrivance disruptive to everyday people beneficial only to a handful of master manipulators. It in no way begins to describe the beast on wall street profiteering from strife. In it's basest carnal appetite, it CREATES stampedes because it doesn't make near the amount of money it wants unless money is moving in volumes, and rapidly, in both directions playing one side off the other. This is the aftermath of deregulation allowing feeding frenzies to run amok for decades. Uncle Ronnie cashed in world class business ethics for lollipops.
Ohhh geez, now you got youtube videos.
As to moving back and forth, that's how the laws of physics work and it goes down all the way to the atoms that make up everything around you. If you have noticed the "east" versus "west" thing, the yin-yang.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady
You're blaming the government for what commerce unregulated does. Governments job is to provide stable basis for commerce. Not to provide the basis for legalized theft or defend hoarders at any price. This is the lesson libertarians refuse to learn, and all you've taken for granted presuming things take care of themselves. They don't. You just had no idea how many people you had to thank for services rendered because they never asked for accolades. It's the same ignorant argument of atheists insisting morality mysteriously birthed itself spontaneously denying the centuries of cultivation from religious.
Everything takes care of itself, you're seeing right now with the economic malaise of the "west."
But you should know that because you're openly advocating keeping this so far out of whack and refuse to believe there is an equilibrium that you must adhere to.
Your entire progressive dream is made up and so is your perceived entitled standard of living. Government created all of the bubbles people are feeling now because it ran off the mentality that there is no limit to resources.
And that's just not the case.
Of course it's easy to see why government would think that seeing as how the only reason you or I are even on this planet is to consume and reproduce.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady
Unadulterated BS. No peep out of them for 8yrs while drunken prostitutes ran amok. No furrowed brows with the inception of a trillion dollar creation of homeland terrorism. Not even a whimper when a billion up and disappeared in Iraq. Corporate welfare gets defended by Tea with religious fervor?? The hysterics started the moment a black man came in office for a reason. All criticism irrational, all blame deliberately misdirected to allow criminals to continue on acting as their new best friend. All talking points installed by Koch Birch society.
No more lollipops??? We want our Uncle Ronnie!!
Ohh geez, now you've moved on to racism. You're an official far-left long winded self-righteous loon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady
IF that were so massive shrink of extraneous military installations abroad would be on the auction block. IF that were so cost plus contracts would cease and desist instantly. If that were so cutting the money cord for campaign finance and lobbyists would be a high priority. IF that were so protectionist stance would be asserted; the borders would be tightened up to offset economic slow down by correcting global trade imbalance. They're too damned ignorant of the system in DC to understand what legalized bribery is or how it got there in the first place but throwing tantrums for lollipops is close enough for people who couldn't pass the entrance exam of legal immigrants.
You could have kept all of that to yourself since it was meaningless in this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady
You sent jackasses to DC for 30yrs shooting at the economic engines of every major metropolis and turn around blaming the engines and how progressives ruined them? Priceless!
The only fantasy going on here is the fantasy you have about progressive objectives.
Your progressive objectives started out with:
Quote:
As the new century loomed just over the horizon, the time seemed ripe for many Americans to look beyond their continental borders to a place of destiny in the world. Historian Frederick Jackson Turner had warned Americans, in his much-reproduced speech delivered at the 1893 Chicago World's Fair, that the new century would be the first in U.S. history in which no frontier existed for them to conquer. Many Americans interpreted this to mean that new frontiers were integral to national greatness. For example, Rear Admiral Alfred Thayer Mahan preached the doctrine of American expansionism in twenty books and numerous widely quoted essays. He asserted that no modern nation could be a great nation without a powerful navy, a superior merchant fleet, and overseas colonies. Turner's lectures and Mahan's writings greatly influenced political leaders like Theodore Roosevelt and Henry Cabot Lodge. These individuals looked beyond American shores for new frontiers, world markets, and overseas colonies.
And in its attempts to "Christianize" other nations, it consumed like locust:
Quote:
This action engaged the nationalists in a bloody war that left the United States open to atrocity charges similar to those lodged against Spain in its dealings with Cuba and the reconcentration camps. The war lasted until 1902, and before it was over, it claimed the lives of more than 5,000 Americans and some 200,000 Filipinos.
The defense industry was funded just fine for reality based wars. Not for wars declared to infinity and beyond as cats paw of oil conglomerations, mercenaries for hire, or private contractor bonanzas. The defense industry was funded just fine before they made corporate welfare queens of themselves and had nothing but incentive to create wars to exponentially increase their take home pay. Tea won't utter a word about military waste even as Vets die of neglect while contractors live the high life in cayman islands.
Your entire infrastructure is made up of or brought to you by oil and if you become subject to nuclear powers controlling all of it you lose. And you lose bad.
But I'm sure you'd be fine with OPEC having nuclear missiles and controlling your energy supply.
You egged on the creation of monsters, Jon, and you still don't want to believe you're guilty but you absolutely are. You've failed to see what each side was legitimately defending all along and got played. The only job you're left doing now is continue calling in fires to the wrong addresses and perpetuate the misdirection of blame until there is nothing left to defend.
Right. And only your position is the correct one. More blowhardiness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady
Break every allegiance. Break the allegiance of states fiscally pitting them against one another. Break the allegiance of counties vying for resources. Break the allegiance of citizens to their communities and their countrymen. Break the allegiance of families to one another in generational blame games. Break the allegiance parents have to their children, and children to their parents. Worship yourselves. Prey on one another. It's pure evil and there's no excuse left any of you.
It all started when you started believe a precious god put you here and told you to "be fruitful and multiply."
I have to imagine he snickered quite loud after repeating that.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Mass deflection of accountability 101
The hysterics started the moment a black man came in office for a reason. All criticism irrational, all blame deliberately misdirected to allow criminals to continue on acting as their new best friend. All talking points installed by Koch Birch society.
We want our Uncle Ronnie!! 
