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Old 08-24-2011, 06:53 AM
 
13,900 posts, read 9,768,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
I guess you missed the part where I stated it needs to be reduced in size.

You are spouting the same big government drivel that has gotten us to this point.
Big government? By saying we need to cut programs and reduce tax rates?

That's interesting.
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Old 08-24-2011, 06:57 AM
 
45,217 posts, read 26,427,822 times
Reputation: 24970
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks View Post
Big government? By saying we need to cut programs and reduce tax rates?

That's interesting.
As you stated earlier, you are not advocating for a reduction in size, but rather naively think it can be reformed of waste and corruption.
You'd make a great used car sales woman.
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Old 08-24-2011, 06:58 AM
 
13,900 posts, read 9,768,357 times
Reputation: 6856
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
As you stated earlier, you are not advocating for a reduction in size, but rather naively think it can be reformed of waste and corruption.
You'd make a great used car sales woman.
Then you didn't read what I said. That's not my fault. That's your's.
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Old 08-24-2011, 06:58 AM
 
13,510 posts, read 17,031,904 times
Reputation: 9691
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks View Post
So keep doing what we are doing and then none of that money comes back, which means there's no tax revenue either?

Nope. In the highly competitive global economy. Doing the old school high taxes on corporations and the rich won't work anymore.

It seems that every answer from the right wing/GOP ends with rich people getting richer while the rest of America becomes Brazil. What most middle class GOP/talk radio worshipping fools don't realize is that they are eventually going to be outside the walls, so to speak, just like all the "poor" people they despise so much.

While we still have the most attractive market in the world for foreign products, we should completely overhaul how we deal with imports from countries that don't follow the same rules we do. Before it's too late and we do become Brazil, which is exactly where trickle down economics is leading us.

Actually, if you look at income inequality..we are already not part of the Western World anymore. If you visit many inner city and rural areas, that may actually be true.
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Old 08-24-2011, 07:00 AM
 
13,900 posts, read 9,768,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72 View Post
It seems that every answer from the right wing/GOP ends with rich people getting richer while the rest of America becomes Brazil. What most middle class GOP/talk radio worshipping fools don't realize is that they are eventually going to be outside the walls, so to speak, just like all the "poor" people they despise so much.

While we still have the most attractive market in the world for foreign products, we should completely overhaul how we deal with imports from countries that don't follow the same rules we do. Before it's too late and we do become Brazil, which is exactly where trickle down economics is leading us.
Seriously? Right-wing? I'm center-left, but the far left needs to understand that just punishing corporations and rich people isn't the answer.
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Old 08-24-2011, 07:12 AM
 
13,510 posts, read 17,031,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks View Post
Seriously? Right-wing? I'm center-left, but the far left needs to understand that just punishing corporations and rich people isn't the answer.
Using the term "punishing" in regards to taxation is a code word for someone with right wing beliefs. When you live in an incredibly safe and stable nation for business like the US and you benefit from it's wealthy market, infrastructure, courts, police, etc, using the term "punishment" to describe taxes is disengenious at best.

The simple fact is that if we cut corporate taxes to zero, American MBA grad CEOs would still send the jobs where the cheapest labor is....that is until the US becomes a 3rd world craphole like all the places being outsourced to now.

Cutting taxes on the wealthy and allowing corporations to pay much lower taxes than the tax rate indicates (through loopholes) has not created jobs here. It's a failed misguided ideology that only achieves putting more money in the pockets of those who already control everything.

What's messed up is that so many middle class Americans who are sliding down into the craphole are buying into the rhetoric.
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Old 08-24-2011, 07:22 AM
 
13,900 posts, read 9,768,357 times
Reputation: 6856
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72 View Post
Using the term "punishing" in regards to taxation is a code word for someone with right wing beliefs. When you live in an incredibly safe and stable nation for business like the US and you benefit from it's wealthy market, infrastructure, courts, police, etc, using the term "punishment" to describe taxes is disengenious at best.

The simple fact is that if we cut corporate taxes to zero, American MBA grad CEOs would still send the jobs where the cheapest labor is....that is until the US becomes a 3rd world craphole like all the places being outsourced to now.

Cutting taxes on the wealthy and allowing corporations to pay much lower taxes than the tax rate indicates (through loopholes) has not created jobs here. It's a failed misguided ideology that only achieves putting more money in the pockets of those who already control everything.

What's messed up is that so many middle class Americans who are sliding down into the craphole are buying into the rhetoric.
It's punishing just to make them high because you want to. We still need a progressive tax structure, but in a highly competitive global economy the rich or big corporations can just move their money so we need low rates and incentives for investment. That's the reality. We have to adjust to that.
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Old 08-24-2011, 07:36 AM
 
Location: it depends
6,369 posts, read 6,407,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks View Post
I'm all for a corporate tax repatriation holiday. I'm all for companies bringing their money back on shore from around the world. This should be tied to an extension of the payroll tax holiday. The revenue generated from the tax holiday should be funneled into an infrastructure bank that will put people back to work.

That is just a short-term fix. We need tax reform that makes this incentive permanent. To my liberal Democratic friends, I'm a Democrat, we need to reform taxes to encourage growth and investment in the USA. There's no point in trying to stick it to corporations, just to see them avoid the taxes altogether. We might as well lower rates across the board and see that money come back to the USA and then some of that lost revenue can return.

Those are my two cents.
Imagine my surprise about agreeing with you on two things: winter does suck, and a corporate tax repatriation holiday is a good thing. I salute your instincts to promote growth, as well.

Here is where we part ways: the buildup of corporate cash overseas is the symptom of a seriously defective corporate income tax code that taxes foreign earnings twice, and punishes domestic earnings with the highest tax rate in the world. IN effect, we punish American companies for investing in America and hiring Americans for American jobs. Then we sell off tax breaks and incentives and loopholes so we end up with a 35% tax that nobody pays, at least not the big guys. The whole program is stupid.

The repatriation of capital under a tax holiday merely corrects past policy. Going forward, we need to take the garbage out of the tax code, understanding that one man's garbage is another man's treasure. No more green energy boondoggles, no more special breaks for the importers of rum or the owners of NASCAR tracks. Then lower the rate, and collect more actual dollars. And get with the rest of the world on how to tax foreign earnings so there is NO incentive to leave foreign earnings overseas in the future.

To force repatriated capital into an infrastructure bank is wrong. It is not our money; we did not make it. Let it come home and be put to the best uses its owners can come up with.

As for infrastructure, we ought to eliminate the bidding requirements that force up costs by requiring above-market wages be paid. Any project with demonstrable economic benefits above its cost should be funded with special purpose project bonds whose life matches the project's life, issued by the Treasury at its low borrowing costs. This class of debt should not be counted against deficit limits: it is like getting a car loan to buy a car, when we do that we pay for the car over its life instead of all at once. We have a debt, yes, but we also have an asset. This work ought to be put in place as fast as we can, as much as we can, without disrupting the market for goods and labor.

Winter_sucks, I appreciate your thoughts, believe them to be improved by my thoughts, and hope like hell that people on both sides in Washington are trading ideas and talking back and forth, too.
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