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Old 08-25-2011, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,705 posts, read 26,513,113 times
Reputation: 12714

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
It sounds like you are saying it is ok to restrict the rights of gays since our founders say our rights come from God of the bible?

You can call anything a right, but that doesn't make it so.


If our rights do not come from God, from where do they originate?
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Old 08-25-2011, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,705 posts, read 26,513,113 times
Reputation: 12714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie53 View Post
"......force my beliefs on others....", that would be trying to legislate your religious dogmas.

As for your argument that the emotion of disgust is nature's way of protecting the species.......then you must also believe in nature's plan of "survival of the fittest".

So.....I guess people who are diseased and those born with disabilities, should not be allowed to survive or breed, as they will weaken the gene pool. It's nature's way.


Who said all that crap?

Save the straw man arguments.

"......force my beliefs on others....", that would be trying to legislate your religious dogmas."

Stealing should be legal because it is forbidden by Christian and Jewish religious dogmas?

Murder OK because one of the Ten Commandmants forbids it?

Is it OK to mix church and state for the purpose of outlawing theft and murder?


As for your argument that the emotion of disgust is nature's way of protecting the species.......then you must also believe in nature's plan of "survival of the fittest".


Disgust protects the individual and the people closest to him or her.

The purpose of avoiding disease is so we don't take them home to our families.

The fittest people are those who never get infected with avoidable diseases to begin with.

As for the gene pool, by definition, it sorts itself out.


"So.....I guess people who are diseased and those born with disabilities, should not be allowed to survive or breed, as they will weaken the gene pool."

Wrong again; I'm pro-life.
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Old 08-25-2011, 08:05 AM
 
15,706 posts, read 11,823,804 times
Reputation: 7022
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
You can call anything a right, but that doesn't make it so.


If our rights do not come from God, from where do they originate?
The need for society to protect itself and promote growth and civility. Only 2 of the 613 Mitzvot exist in US law. Clearly we're not based on Biblical law.
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Old 08-25-2011, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Ohio
15,700 posts, read 17,126,276 times
Reputation: 22093
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
I find anal intercourse to be disgusting regardless of who is engaging in it.

"All of the diseases that can be spread by homosexual sex are also spread by hetrosexual sex."

Mmm, in this country, not so much...

"Unprotected receptive anal sex does indeed carry the greatest risk for HIV transmission when considering the risk associated with various sexual activities. The CDC estimated-risk statistic that you quote is a population statistic. It basically helps in establishing relative risk. For instance, unprotected insertive penile-vaginal sex is riskier than receptive oral sex, but not as risky as insertive anal sex."

Unprotected receptive anal sex - Forum on Safe Sex and HIV Prevention


Creating children isn't a bad thing.

That's how we all got here.
Must be hard for you to accept anyone other than yourself I guess.....since you never know which of your hetrosexual friends regularly engage in anal sex. OMG ....maybe even your preacher partakes!

It is not good for society to bring children into the world that you cannot/will not take care of, or to bring disabled/diseased children into the world that will weaken the gene pool. That is a basic law in the of survival of the species. Only the fit survive to breed and carry on the species.

If you embrace your "disgust" theory because it's nature's way....you would also have to embrace "survival of the fittest" as that is also nature's way.

You don't get to "cherry pick" nature's laws to fit your personal agenda. It's all or nothing.
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Old 08-25-2011, 08:17 AM
 
12,282 posts, read 13,304,599 times
Reputation: 4986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Versatile View Post
Sam Brownback ad the KS Republicans seem to disagree with you. Many Repubs are mad because Brownback campaigned on the platform of Economics and jobs first before social issues but it is not working out that way.
Brownback wants money from the Feds to give to churches to promote marriage.
From a Kansas resident.

Brownback turns back millions for a health care early innovator grant (which we will be forced to do and now pay for ourselves) on the basis that the federal government is broke. He then applies for millions of federal funding for his initiative promoting marriage from the same supposedly broke federal government? Because more people getting married, having kids, and getting larger tax breaks is supposed to improve the financial situation? Why do people need the government's help in order to get married? Don't get me wrong, if people want to get married that's fine, I'm all for it! I just don't want to pay for it! -sound familiar Tea-Partiers?

Brownback is a total hypocrite! His flip-flops and waffling on when he is willing to use federal funds proves this. He has used the Tea Party movement for his own means, triumphantly turning back federal money, while quietly trying to accept it for his own bloated programs.
He serves no-one's interest except his own, not the right, not the left, not the center, not the people of Kansas. Brownback is a career politician on his way to raid the next honey hole.
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Old 08-25-2011, 08:28 AM
 
Location: Ohio
15,700 posts, read 17,126,276 times
Reputation: 22093
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
Who said all that crap?

Save the straw man arguments.

"......force my beliefs on others....", that would be trying to legislate your religious dogmas."

Stealing should be legal because it is forbidden by Christian and Jewish religious dogmas?

Murder OK because one of the Ten Commandmants forbids it?

Is it OK to mix church and state for the purpose of outlawing theft and murder?

Laws are MAN MADE for the benefit of society. Some of the most horrendous acts are committed because of religious dogma.....just look as Warren Jeffs, the Westboro church and the Taliban. As we evolve, we have systematically outlawed much of religious dogma.....because it is unjust and uncivilized.


"So.....I guess people who are diseased and those born with disabilities, should not be allowed to survive or breed, as they will weaken the gene pool."

Wrong again; I'm pro-life.
Would that also include homosexual babies?
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Old 08-25-2011, 08:57 AM
 
3,566 posts, read 3,745,392 times
Reputation: 1364
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlassoff View Post
I am wondering: How come if I support a fiscally conservative candidate, it usually means I am supporting a candidate who does not support gay marriage, doesn't believe in evolution and/or global warming?

Why can't we have a fiscally conservative candidate who isn't using the fiscal conservatism as a proxy to attack boys kissing, public libraries and separation of church and state?

Please think about your answer... I am not interested in hearing talking points regurgitated.
Evolution and global warming are not matters of belief--which properly belongs in the realm of religion. Rather those issues are matters of science--which is not faith-based but fact-based. When the facts don't support a particular theory it is foolishness to continue "believing" in that theory. Right now molecular biology has pretty well discredited Darwin's theory of evolution. And global warming was always based on junk science and politics. So you don't have to be a social conservative not to subscribe to either theory.

As for so-called gay marriage here, too, one can oppose it for reasons unrelated to social conservatism by which, I assume, you mean the so-called Religious Right. The marriage of homosexuals defies the laws of nature upon which millennia of cultural practices were formed. It is an attempt to normalize the aberrant.

Moreover homosexual marriage puts society on a slippery slope where all sexual norms are questioned. Case in point: at a recent conference of psychologists the classification of pedophilia as a psychological pathology was challenged--just as happened in the early 1970's with respect to homosexuality. That's where the acceptance of aberration and depravity begins.

It is the Left that defies reason and science in the service of trendy theories which do significant harm to society.
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Old 08-25-2011, 09:17 AM
 
Location: New London County, CT
8,949 posts, read 12,188,484 times
Reputation: 5145
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMe View Post
Evolution and global warming are not matters of belief--which properly belongs in the realm of religion. Rather those issues are matters of science--which is not faith-based but fact-based. When the facts don't support a particular theory it is foolishness to continue "believing" in that theory. Right now molecular biology has pretty well discredited Darwin's theory of evolution. And global warming was always based on junk science and politics. So you don't have to be a social conservative not to subscribe to either theory.

As for so-called gay marriage here, too, one can oppose it for reasons unrelated to social conservatism by which, I assume, you mean the so-called Religious Right. The marriage of homosexuals defies the laws of nature upon which millennia of cultural practices were formed. It is an attempt to normalize the aberrant.

Moreover homosexual marriage puts society on a slippery slope where all sexual norms are questioned. Case in point: at a recent conference of psychologists the classification of pedophilia as a psychological pathology was challenged--just as happened in the early 1970's with respect to homosexuality. That's where the acceptance of aberration and depravity begins.

It is the Left that defies reason and science in the service of trendy theories which do significant harm to society.

Wow, and that sounds so cogent. Yet so full of falsehoods that you seem to use to justify both bigotry and false logic.

Mainstream science supports both climate change and evolution. You are selectively choosing to believe a few outliers and take those theories as "truth" while ignoring the bulk of evidence and the bulk of reputable scientists. You're working backwards. Instead of following the evidence, you are starting with what you wish to be true and trying to find the science to justify it.

The facts that evolution has occurred and that the climate is changing are not controversial from a scientific perspective.

The politics in global warming have been borne mostly from the conservative side-- attempting to justifying continued air pollution in the name of profit and in an on-going attempt to discredit liberal politicians who actually want to do something about it.

The slippery slope argument was used to justify prevention of misengination and any attempt to conflate homosexuality with pedophilia is a falsehood and a complete non-starter in my book.

But hey, if it justifies your own ignorance and bigotry, have at it, I guess. But I won't vote for you, no matter how sane you are on fiscal policy.
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Old 08-25-2011, 10:18 AM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
8,181 posts, read 9,256,441 times
Reputation: 3632
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
You can call anything a right, but that doesn't make it so.


If our rights do not come from God, from where do they originate?
A right is something consenting adults can do as long as they are not using force, fraud or coercion on others.

You can say God, I would say that also but to others rights just exist.

Again if your anti-homosexual stance comes from the bible, why don't you support all laws that are in the bible?
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Old 08-25-2011, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Ohio
15,700 posts, read 17,126,276 times
Reputation: 22093
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
A right is something consenting adults can do as long as they are not using force, fraud or coercion on others.

You can say God, I would say that also but to others rights just exist.

Again if your anti-homosexual stance comes from the bible, why don't you support all laws that are in the bible?
Because, he feels he should be able to "cherry pick" which laws from the bible we are supposed to follow and which laws of mother nature we are supposed to follow. Only the laws that fit his personal agenda are worthy.
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