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Old 08-24-2011, 02:12 PM
 
Location: New London County, CT
8,949 posts, read 12,172,761 times
Reputation: 5145

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Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
Not trying to rattle your cage or anything, but I gotta ask...

The Founders believed our rights came from God.

When they made this assertion, they were clearly referring to the God of the Bible.

I also believe our rights come from God.

From whom does a right to marry one's own sex come?

BTW Evolution means different things to different people.

My revulsion to homosexuality is part of my behavioral immune system which evolved over countless generations to help me avoid pathogens for which I might be poorly equipped to defend myself.

Are you tolerant of this natural reflexive condition which I was born with and cannot change?
Not to rattle your cage, but you are EXACTLY what I am talking about.

I don't care where you think rights came from or if you believe in God. I am Jewish, and I am sure have a different conception of God than you do.

The fact that you have the arrogance to pretend you know what God wants in terms of marriage-- and that your rights come from God, but but mine are denied by him-- is disgusting.

The fact that you are revolted by homosexuality and chalk it up to anything other than bigotry is only further evidence to your being a prime example of a fiscal conservative with such repugnant social views that I would vote for just about anyone else rather than risk putting your ilk in power.
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Old 08-24-2011, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
23,860 posts, read 24,189,275 times
Reputation: 15144
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlassoff View Post
I am wondering: How come if I support a fiscally conservative candidate, it usually means I am supporting a candidate who does not support gay marriage, doesn't believe in evolution and/or global warming?

Why can't we have a fiscally conservative candidate who isn't using the fiscal conservatism as a proxy to attack boys kissing, public libraries and separation of church and state?

Please think about your answer... I am not interested in hearing talking points regurgitated.
You could have asked why social liberalism must come with fiscal irresponsibility, but you didn't. You instead chose to take the position that the problem exists with the social conservatives, and the social conservatives alone. I see that as nothing more than a thinly veiled attack against conservatives, and specifically, the Republican party.
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Old 08-24-2011, 02:20 PM
 
Location: New London County, CT
8,949 posts, read 12,172,761 times
Reputation: 5145
Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post
You could have asked why social liberalism must come with fiscal irresponsibility, but you didn't. You instead chose to take the position that the problem exists with the social conservatives, and the social conservatives alone. I see that as nothing more than a thinly veiled attack against conservatives, and specifically, the Republican party.
Trust me, I'd love it if any politician showed more fiscal sanity. But the problem with being so socially repugnant, is owned by the Republican/Conservatives. Not all Republicans vote against gay marriage, but if you do the overwhelmingly likelihood is you're a Republican. Not all Republicans are against abortion, but if you are , the overwhelming likelihood is you're a Republican... I can go on..

Not raising the debt ceiling isn't fiscal sanity either, by the way.
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Old 08-24-2011, 02:27 PM
 
1,337 posts, read 1,527,931 times
Reputation: 656
Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
Like I said, getting people back to work and improving the economy ..... That's pretty simple. These things can be dealt with AFTER the MAJORITY of the people get attention paid to first.
This may just be a semantic gripe on my part, but I am curious, nonetheless. Since I think you are from the conservative camp, I'm curious what you are expecting the government to do to get people back to work.

Not to take your words too literally, or out of context, as I realize numerous things can be meant by what you said..... but the idea of "getting people back to work" isn't really a valid function or purpose of government in most schools of conservative and Republican thought. Nor is "improving the economy."

Those two italicized phrases (to those who ascribe to a philosophy which largely separates market from government except when controlling negative externalities) are largely functions of the market, not governance. The extent to which government is supposed to interfere in those things under conservative or limited government philosophy is (in this context) largely limited to not interfering with the process (which they do - and that can be corrected). It is the market actors themselves who are supposed to "fix" the problem (or don't fix it - if they [in aggregate] so choose to - since not fixing it is an equally valid market choice in the same way that if everyone chooses to sit on a large part of their savings instead of putting it back into the system to buy goods, it is likewise a valid and appropriate market choice), not some group of social engineers who think it is their job to "fix" it all, on behalf of all market actors.

Fixing the economy and getting people (employed/back to work) are phrases that really should never come out of conservatives and limited-government advocates mouths, in my opinion. At best, I think those are somewhat semantically imprecise phrases in which the person simply misidentified what needs to be done. At worst, it's totally wrong-headed.

Improving the economy and getting people back to work should never be considered moral goals in and of themselves under any school of conservative or limited-government thought. They are merely indirect ancillary 'benefits' of other substantive changes, the ones that are actually substantively important.

Last edited by FreedomThroughAnarchism; 08-24-2011 at 02:35 PM..
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Old 08-24-2011, 02:30 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
8,182 posts, read 9,242,721 times
Reputation: 3632
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
Not trying to rattle your cage or anything, but I gotta ask...

The Founders believed our rights came from God.

When they made this assertion, they were clearly referring to the God of the Bible.

I also believe our rights come from God.

From whom does a right to marry one's own sex come?

BTW Evolution means different things to different people.

My revulsion to homosexuality is part of my behavioral immune system which evolved over countless generations to help me avoid pathogens for which I might be poorly equipped to defend myself.

Are you tolerant of this natural reflexive condition which I was born with and cannot change?
Do you support all 613 of Gods laws? 613 Mitzvot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


If not why? You are picking few that don't apply to you and focusing on them.

Jesus said Love is the only commandment, not using the force of government to uphold the laws.
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Old 08-24-2011, 03:09 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
2,953 posts, read 5,311,028 times
Reputation: 1731
I am with the OP on this boat. I am a fiscal conservative who hates the stigma social conservatives have brought to the conservative movement.

I am a Christian, but I also believe in evolution and the value of science. If your faith is so rigid and fragile that you have to ignore basic scientific facts to protect your beliefs, that's your problem, not mine.

What I want to know is when respecting other people, helping your neighbors, not judging others, and loving one another as God loves us became "Liberal" ideas?
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Old 08-24-2011, 03:16 PM
 
3,045 posts, read 3,201,061 times
Reputation: 1307
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlassoff View Post
I am wondering: How come if I support a fiscally conservative candidate, it usually means I am supporting a candidate who does not support gay marriage, doesn't believe in evolution and/or global warming?

Why can't we have a fiscally conservative candidate who isn't using the fiscal conservatism as a proxy to attack boys kissing, public libraries and separation of church and state?

Please think about your answer... I am not interested in hearing talking points regurgitated.
Largely because the educated, trailer park types who post here seemingly en masse care about all of those issues and think they are conservative. That's not a talking point. That's plain truth.

Incidentally, few people really care about fiscal responsibility. It's something that Republican candidates talk about a lot when they are in the minority (such as the Freshman class did in the 90's before they took over), but they quickly forget about when they have power.

The typical American is short sighted and selfish. That's why we in general have way too much household debt. We whine about how government spending it out of control yet the average American is doing a worse job with their finances.
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Old 08-24-2011, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Old Town Alexandria
14,492 posts, read 26,644,335 times
Reputation: 8971
Because liberals didnt spawn something like this:

Extremism in America - Westboro Baptist Church: About WBC

westboro baptists
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Old 08-24-2011, 03:36 PM
Sco
 
4,259 posts, read 4,931,299 times
Reputation: 3373
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlassoff View Post
If that is true, find me a Republican who supports my right as a gay man to get married in all 50 states, serve openly in the military and believes that evolution is fact.
Gary Johnson is the GOP candidate that you are looking for. However, even though he served two full terms as New Mexico governor, he has been labeled as not a serious candidate by both the media and his own party.
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Old 08-24-2011, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Neither here nor there
14,810 posts, read 16,241,411 times
Reputation: 33001
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlassoff View Post
I am wondering: How come if I support a fiscally conservative candidate, it usually means I am supporting a candidate who does not support gay marriage, doesn't believe in evolution and/or global warming?

Why can't we have a fiscally conservative candidate who isn't using the fiscal conservatism as a proxy to attack boys kissing, public libraries and separation of church and state?

Please think about your answer... I am not interested in hearing talking points regurgitated.

"Public libraries"??? You lost me there.
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