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Well a lot of A advocates are probably either collecting SS and Medicare or will be doing so soon. Now they all believe in their heart of hearts they paid for it even though they actually only paid for about 30% of what they are going to collect. The rest is coming out of the pockets of their children and their children's children's pockets and so it will be when their children retire etc. etc. etc. That is unless their children welch on their promises.
Do you have any clue in how any insurance works? When paying insurance of any kind you are paying for someone's claim whether it be private insurance or public. Also how many payees die before collecting a dime in SS? Plenty.
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[note 1]promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
Definately NOT promoting the general welfare of citizens if they are excluded because of wealth from the means to promote their general welfare which includes health.
Why do you pay taxes normander??????
Obviously a product of one of our fine, union-taught schools.
Provide for defence.
Promote general welfare.
Promote is NOT provide.
Nobody is excluding anyone. If they have the money, they can have the insurance and care.
Do you have any clue in how any insurance works? When paying insurance of any kind you are paying for someone's claim whether it be private insurance or public. Also how many payees die before collecting a dime in SS? Plenty.
Yes I know how insurance works, yes I am sharing the risk over a large pool of insurance participants. However, the insurance business paradym works best when the adverse event we are seeking insurance is rare and not so catastrophic that it exhausts the underwriting pool. Now what happens if both those conditions or even one of those conditions is negated? You get something like American International Group (AIG). You also get what I see with the growing problem of paying for our system Social Security and Medicare (Health care for Americas Disabiled and Aging population). We are both exhausting the underwriting pool, demographics and our technology are working against us, when Social security was created in 1937 there were more than a dozen working people paying FICA to cover the benefits for each Social Security client in 2011 there are now only 3 and in the not so distant future only 2. This isn't because we have fewer workers in 2011 than in 1937 it is because we have 55 million seniors rather than a couple million. Back in 1937 life expectancy was 57 which meant that nearly half of us were dead by age 57 and a good fraction of us didn't last much longer. Contrast that with today when our life expectancy is nearly 80. This is a stagering achievement due to our advances in technology much of it developed and financed by government and socialist economic and medical policy for seniors. They have made it possible for tens of millions of Americans to live decades longer than their grandparents did in the good old days some long to return. But this is now our problem to try to fix. Now the other problem is the rarity of claims to the system and the amount of those claims. The problem is nobody get out of here alive and every client makes a expensive claim to the system. at the rate of $20,000 for lets say 20 years a Social Security costs the system $400,000 the problem is he has usually paid in half that amount. Its even worse for Medicare which is underfunded by a factor of 2/3. So to keep the system sovent in the future their may need to be some stiff revenue enhancements.
I hate calling social security or our medical "insurance" insurance because you would get laughed out of the board room if you present a business plan for an insurance company that was so screwed up as our current system which should really be called an retirement, safety net and health finance scheme for the American people. Not insurance period.
Yes I know how insurance works, yes I am sharing the risk over a large pool of insurance participants. However, the insurance business paradym works best when the adverse event we are seeking insurance is rare and not so catastrophic that it exhausts the underwriting pool. Now what happens if both those conditions or even one of those conditions is negated? You get something like American International Group (AIG). You also get what I see with the growing problem of paying for our system Social Security and Medicare (Health care for Americas Disabiled and Aging population). We are both exhausting the underwriting pool, demographics and our technology are working against us, when Social security was created in 1937 there were more than a dozen working people paying FICA to cover the benefits for each Social Security client in 2011 there are now only 3 and in the not so distant future only 2. This isn't because we have fewer workers in 2011 than in 1937 it is because we have 55 million seniors rather than a couple million. Back in 1937 life expectancy was 57 which meant that nearly half of us were dead by age 57 and a good fraction of us didn't last much longer. Contrast that with today when our life expectancy is nearly 80. This is a stagering achievement due to our advances in technology much of it developed and financed by government and socialist economic and medical policy for seniors. They have made it possible for tens of millions of Americans to live decades longer than their grandparents did in the good old days some long to return. But this is now our problem to try to fix. Now the other problem is the rarity of claims to the system and the amount of those claims. The problem is nobody get out of here alive and every client makes a expensive claim to the system. at the rate of $20,000 for lets say 20 years a Social Security costs the system $400,000 the problem is he has usually paid in half that amount. Its even worse for Medicare which is underfunded by a factor of 2/3. So to keep the system sovent in the future their may need to be some stiff revenue enhancements.
I hate calling social security or our medical "insurance" insurance because you would get laughed out of the board room if you present a business plan for an insurance company that was so screwed up as our current system which should really be called an retirement, safety net and health finance scheme for the American people. Not insurance period.
Of course you hate calling it insurance because it is. Peaks and valleys exists in the insurance game and there has been a peak in SS for generations. We all knew the valley was coming over 30 years ago. We also know the fed owes the trust fund. We also know that the fed put forth an unfunded mandate dealing with Medicare part D, also a cap on wages stifling new money from entering the system. We also know Wall Street wants that money. SS is solvent because of the treasury bonds owed to it. We all know the valley is not going to last forever and in-fact turn back into a peak. negotiate prices in dealing with Medicare part D, like the rest of the civilized world for pharmaceuticals and stop paying ridiculous and outrageous full retail price for these meds. As far as Wall Street is concerned they can play poker with with China's money. If any one of these scumbag politicians messes with SS, us baby boomers are going to kick ass and take names.
The advocates for keeping the health service as it is in the USA..... You get what you pay for .... Are the ones who are doing very nicely with either work related benefits or who have enough money to pay high premiums or pay cash if they become sick or have not had a serious illness and think they never will. Many of these people completely change their mind about the American health system when they either lose their jobs and benefits,when they or a loved one becomes sick and realize that the amount needed for treatment will wipe out their savings or even make them lose their home....then and only then do they realize how awful the current health system in America really is..... the sleepless nights worrying about becoming ill or how impotent they will be if their wife, children or close loved ones became sick and all they can do is watch them suffer. They spout how having a single payer UHC in America is unconstitutional and that the constitution does not provide for a Universal Single Payer System. They fail to realize that when the Constitution was written, medicine was not as we know it today and if you became sick you normally died... maybe that's what they think the health system should go back to.... a "Doctor" would only have the skill for basic treatment, eg Blood letting, amputation etc etc. You would pay with a chicken or something similar and as i said... most people died anyway from their illness or accident..... This is NO LONGER how our medical system works and thus it now we have actual treatments for many many many health problems..... Oh i forgot, the latest technology is only reserved for the ones with money in the USA. Not only a arrogant attitude but as we can see by the millions of Americans WITHOUT health cover and the Thousand dying every year in the USA from lack of health cover or the Bankruptcy and home loss due to health problems, that the USA health system is broken and needs a complete overhaul. In 2012, with the amazing advances in Medicine, why is it only in America that these advances are the domain of the "Elite"? Well we ALL know the answer to that one......... Arrogance, Elitism, corruption at the top and absolute disdain for poorer American's.
This must stop and stop now..... Govt. funded health care works in every other Industrialized Nation and has been created without bankrupting ANY Country.
The "scare mongering" by the people who have the most to gain from keeping America held Hostage to Insurance Companies, Huge pharmaceutical companies etc etc etc, and Politicians who get huge donations and 'back handers" to keep the money rolling into the pockets of the CEO's is at the cost of Millions of American's and is helping destroy our Economy....but hey why should they care? they get treatment with their gold platted health cover which covers them even after they leave office and no longer contribute.
Wise up America.... You are far to great a People to now stick your heads in the sand and watch this "train go over the edge" without even attempting to put your foot on the "brake".
Many have a beef with the President for not having the 'balls" to solve our problems, well we should now have the "balls" to get what EVERY American needs and deserves............ a way to keep our families and loved ones healthy and safe in the 21st Century.........
A UNIVERSAL HEALTH SERVICE for ALL, no matter how rich or poor. This is NOT 1787 but 2012 and to promote the welfare of our citizens now includes advanced health care that was NOT accessible when the Constitution was written... if it had been, i have NO DOUBT that the founding Fathers would have included it as a principle in the Constitution.... would have made no sense not to and it makes no sense to exclude it for millions now just because of greed, corruption and pure "Elitism".
Should many now die to keep the wealthy in good health? NO!
The advocates for keeping the health service as it is in the USA..... You get what you pay for .... Are the ones who are doing very nicely with either work related benefits or who have enough money to pay high premiums or pay cash if they become sick or have not had a serious illness and think they never will.
Wow, you do NOT know what you're talking about. Firstly, there is almost no one who thinks our health INSURANCE system is "good" the way it is. However, most of us who are against he universal health care would like to see reform of a different sort. The kind that not only would bring health insurance rates down tremendously, but would make it much easier for everyone to actually GET health insurance. Of course, the Left doesn't like those ideas because it's not "free" insurance. But neither is UHC!
It's really quite a huge lie to say that NO country has become bankrupt because of UHC. When most of Europe is going bankrupt because of their social entitlements and it's those entitlements that have been causing the riots all over Europe as well.
As for the people who disagree with UHC being only rich or have great insurance... wrong again! I am neither rich, nor do I have great insurance from my "employer". I am self employed with a business that is growing (yes, growing in THIS economy). I don't have insurance because it's an expense that I don't feel the "need" to put out monthly right now. And if you think I'm in good health, you're wrong there too. I have many medical problems that run the gambit from minor to severe (some which has sent me to the ER twice). However, as long as I keep my medical issues in check, I only go to see my doctor about once a month. I pay out of pocket $75 a visit. When I need labs done, there is a lab in town that takes cash payments for lab work and I only pay $100. I have gone to the emergency room 2 x's in the last 3 years, paid the $250 up front for the visit and am currently making monthly payments to the hospital on the rest.
No, it's not easy having medical problems and not having insurance. But LIFE isn't easy. I don't have a ton of money, and adding another monthly bill to the rest of them is NOT acceptable at this moment in time. someday it will be, but not right now. Until then, I don't spend a lot of money on doctors or medicine. I go to Walgreens for my $4 - $12 prescriptions (which I have 5 different meds I HAVE to take daily) and that's all thanks to Walmart who started the $4 prescriptions trend!
So, you're wrong on so many levels about what you THINK we want for this country. We don't want to be Europe though. That's what we fought the revolutionary war to get away from, why in HELL would we want to go back to that?!?!
If you don't like how America is run, go back to the UK! And quit trying to take away our rights as American citizens! You obviously do not understand what our rights are and why they mean so much to us!
I believe that it is a fundamental human right that every human being should receive healthcare and assistance when it is needed. With that being said, I think that there should also be a private system running alongside the universal one. Not going to get into too much more because we already have 31 pages of arguing both sides of the spectrum.
Also, I never understood why people say that if we had a universal healthcare system then doctors would lose the incentive to work. um.....how about the incentive to simply want to help other people! Maybe it's just me but I do believe that there are some people out there who are truly kind and good-natured people and just want to help others out of the kindness of their heart and that not everyone is a money-hungry, selfish pr*ck.
BTW #2 : I've never met anyone (or a very small minority of people) in my generation (I'm 19) who doesn't believe in some sort of universal system (or something at least different to what we have now). I bring this up because I think that the older, much more conservative generations are going to be in for quite a shock in 20-30 years time or so with the way our country will be.
Just my $0.02, for what it's worth
Oh and.....as another add on....I've lived in the UK, and the system is far superior imo and a very vast majority of Brits are extremely content with it.
Wow, you do NOT know what you're talking about. Firstly, there is almost no one who thinks our health INSURANCE system is "good" the way it is. However, most of us who are against he universal health care would like to see reform of a different sort. The kind that not only would bring health insurance rates down tremendously, but would make it much easier for everyone to actually GET health insurance. Of course, the Left doesn't like those ideas because it's not "free" insurance. But neither is UHC!
It's really quite a huge lie to say that NO country has become bankrupt because of UHC. When most of Europe is going bankrupt because of their social entitlements and it's those entitlements that have been causing the riots all over Europe as well.
As for the people who disagree with UHC being only rich or have great insurance... wrong again! I am neither rich, nor do I have great insurance from my "employer". I am self employed with a business that is growing (yes, growing in THIS economy). I don't have insurance because it's an expense that I don't feel the "need" to put out monthly right now. And if you think I'm in good health, you're wrong there too. I have many medical problems that run the gambit from minor to severe (some which has sent me to the ER twice). However, as long as I keep my medical issues in check, I only go to see my doctor about once a month. I pay out of pocket $75 a visit. When I need labs done, there is a lab in town that takes cash payments for lab work and I only pay $100. I have gone to the emergency room 2 x's in the last 3 years, paid the $250 up front for the visit and am currently making monthly payments to the hospital on the rest.
No, it's not easy having medical problems and not having insurance. But LIFE isn't easy. I don't have a ton of money, and adding another monthly bill to the rest of them is NOT acceptable at this moment in time. someday it will be, but not right now. Until then, I don't spend a lot of money on doctors or medicine. I go to Walgreens for my $4 - $12 prescriptions (which I have 5 different meds I HAVE to take daily) and that's all thanks to Walmart who started the $4 prescriptions trend!
So, you're wrong on so many levels about what you THINK we want for this country. We don't want to be Europe though. That's what we fought the revolutionary war to get away from, why in HELL would we want to go back to that?!?!
If you don't like how America is run, go back to the UK! And quit trying to take away our rights as American citizens! You obviously do not understand what our rights are and why they mean so much to us!
Europe is going broke because they provide benefits to their citizens. Sure, I've got a bridge to sell you. Funny though the US is going broke with our brilliant for-profit system.
Can you blame geeoro for feeling the way he does? He grew up in the UK marries an American and moves to the US and raises a family and has to face this cluster #uck of a healthcare delivery system we've got here in direct contrast in what he experienced his whole life. geeoro father is 90 years old. I'm sure his father remembers the good old days before the UK had UHC. It would be very interesting to hear about that experiences. As far as you having severe illness, pay $2000 a month alone in medicines and chime back. Also if you were really ill you would not last a month without some sort of coverage. I know this for a fact so don't even go there with me because I don't want to hear more **** and bull stories.
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