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And we have to have stuff like this around as a reminder in order to be educated on the subject?
"stuff like this" you mean art? art has been around since the dawn of man. we have historical pictures of war and every other subject imaginable. why should this subject be off limits?
I just don't see why we're hanging the scars of our country up in the white house...
I would dispute your fears or worries of that.
And if such emotions are potentially unleashed by such a painting, then you'll concede that the same emotions would result if such things were taught in a classroom. The black kids and white kids would become resentful of each other. And yet, my white child, upon learning of segregation, Rosa Parks, etc, did not react with "why are they hating on me?" instead, she understood the need for fairness in our relations with each other, and how things weren't always fair. And her black friends don't appear to view her as their oppressor, despite knowing how whites treated their parents or grandparents back in the day.
Reminders of the civil rights struggle do not necessarily divide us along racial lines, in fact, I think they more often can bring us together. Burying it, or shall we say, whitewashing it, is not the answer.
There's been a pervasive fear expressed by many whites ever since Obama was elected that somehow, any acknowledgment of black people's struggles, any honest talk about racism, would be an encouragement for black people to treat whites badly. Since he took office, there have numerous times when Obama's critics pointed out contemporary cases of black-on-white crime and inferred, either slyly or outright, that the root cause was Obama's election, which had "emboldened them." We see the same here on CD PoC.
"This is what you get in Obama's America", so Rush claimed, as he tried to sow racial discord. All playing up on some whites' fears that they will wind up being on the short end of the stick vis a vis black people. I see the criticism of this painting (created by a white man, no less!) as another item in these fears of some Americans.
And if such emotions are potentially unleashed by such a painting, then you'll concede that the same emotions would result if such things were taught in a classroom. The black kids and white kids would become resentful of each other. And yet, my white child, upon learning of segregation, Rosa Parks, etc, did not react with "why are they hating on me?" instead, she understood the need for fairness in our relations with each other, and how things weren't always fair. And her black friends don't appear to view her as their oppressor, despite knowing how whites treated their parents or grandparents back in the day.
Reminders of the civil rights struggle do not necessarily divide us along racial lines, in fact, I think they more often can bring us together. Burying it, or shall we say, whitewashing it, is not the answer.
I'll say it again, I'm all for education on the subject, but I would never hang this up in my house. I'll learn about the past, but on a daily basis I'd rather focus on the fact that we do have equal rights now, than the fact that we didn't have them 50 years ago. You're equating my objection to a constant reminder with wanting to "whitewash" history. That's not true; I just don't see what's productive about this. Agree to disagree.
Do you teach your kids about MLK, Rosa Parks, etc?
Or is all that in your rear view mirror?
Seems as though you have the wrong interpretation about this painting, perhaps you need to brush up on your art history.
Why then aren't you offended by the school systems for rewriting Mark Twain classics because of a certain word ? History has its good and bad aspects it should be taught as is not reinterpted to suit those easily offended...there is a lesson to be learned.My question is what is up with the arm bands on the passing adults? When was this painting unveiled during FDR's years? A time when the Negroes were segregated denied their rights like voting or subjects for VD studies?
O.K. I have to admit this was the first time I saw this Norman Rockwell print unveiled in 1964 LBJ was POTUS... Googled it the picture is much better.I hate arm bands Nazi,Facists cruel Jewish overseers wore them and of the four Marshalls how many were just doing their duty but were biased or racist.
Maybe they were wearing them so some crazy cracker wouldn't shoot them ?
I remember the white only water fountains,restrooms,waiting rooms and when I asked adults why this was they either ignored or spun the question.See all that early Bible school taught me something that adults had lost...innocence and an uncorrupted mind...being biased and racist is a learned trait.Blacks have always went to public schools here with whites way before WW2 but not public places as movies,eaterys,clubs all segregated back in the day.We had a club where I would have a drink with black friends or co workers sometimes and the mostly black patrons treated me well except for a few who felt I invaded their turf.
I'll say it again, I'm all for education on the subject, but I would never hang this up in my house. I'll learn about the past, but on a daily basis I'd rather focus on the fact that we do have equal rights now, than the fact that we didn't have them 50 years ago. You're equating my objection to a constant reminder with wanting to "whitewash" history. That's not true; I just don't see what's productive about this. Agree to disagree.
Good art doesn't have to be "productive". It just has to be provocative and judging by this thread, the Rockwell illustration has as much power to be provocative today as the day it appeared as a double spread cover in Look Magazine. (His work usually appeared on the cover of The Saturday Evening Post so that in itself was quite a statement back in the day.)
You say you'd rather focus on the fact that we have equal rights now and not on the fact that we didn't have them 50 years ago. How do you make kids appreciate what a valuable and hard-fought for asset that it is if they don't know it wasn't always that way, if you sweep that period of history out of sight? The piece hanging in the White House, on loan from a museum, is hanging in the right place at the right time in our social history.
Last edited by Wayland Woman; 08-31-2011 at 08:36 AM..
When did I say kids shouldn't learn about segregation???
When I say it has no educational value, I mean it has none in itself, simply by hanging on a wall. Simply showing the picture, without providing any type of insight or background is not educational in itself. All I was trying to say at that point in this thread was that objecting to this did not in any way equate to objecting to education about civil rights, segregation, etc etc.
In an educational context, I think it has a ton of educational value. Not in cold hard facts contained in the paint of course, but as a window into a segment of history, and in its ability to inspire a teachable moment, it has quite a bit of value. So I do agree with what you're saying here. Like I said, I was simply responding to the comparison that was being made, because it was quite invalid.
Why not in cold hard facts? This painting is a faithful rendition of an actual photograph taken of Ruby Bridges being escorted to school.
The painting has to do with a girl being ushered into a school by federal authorities despite white opposition - correct?
It still focuses on division and hostility.
It does?
Look at the painting again. What is it focusing on?
That's right. The little girl. It doesn't focus on the division or the hostility, you can't even see the protesters, and the lawmen protecting her are clearly not where your focus is drawn. The focus of the painting is squarely placed on that little black girl, Ruby Bridges, who has a type of courage that I can't even begin to understand.
I'm damn near 30 years old and I've never done anything in my life that took even one fraction of the courage that it took that girl to walk into that school. An action so large, so profound, from a person so young and so small. It is very humbling and I think very inspiring. If a small child can have the bravery to do that, how can I not have the bravery to take similar stands for what is right?
The painting is in my belief one of the most inspiring paintings I've ever seen. Especially considering it's source; Norman Rockwell. So associated with the establishment, blandness, and in a way an almost corporate artist, here Rockwell breaks away from everything he's ever painted, but in a very eery way, it is also so similar at the same time, to everything he painted before it. This picture like almost all of his pictures, depicts a scene of American life. It just so happens that the scene that he depicts here shows the cruelty and hypocrisy of America instead of his normal heart-warming fare.
This scene is however just as much authentically American as every other scene he painted. You can ignore it all you want. But this happened. What do we as a country do with this information? The information that we have behaved so poorly? I have no idea. I have no idea how we can finally and permanently heal those wounds. All I know is that I don't think that simply forgetting it or ignoring it, is the answer.
I will not lie, this painting is not solely inspiring. Rockwell does not cut corners, does not polish the rough edges here. The scrawling of the giant profanity across the building makes this very clear. This picture also fills me shame. In truth though I don't feel that shame as white man. I feel that shame as an American. It saddens me that this country which I love so much allowed that poor girl to go through such pain and hardship. It breaks my heart.
But while those feelings are certainly present, the focus of the painting, and I believe the focus of the message, is that girl. That brave girl who at age so young summoned an amount of courage that i can't even begin to imagine.
It is a painting that fills me with a mix of emotions, but good art tends to do this.
A copy of this painting hangs in my home office, I've had it since college. When I have kids the painting will still be there. It may not be the most pleasant painting for my children to see but I do think it will be a very valuable one.
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